Toys4RJill

The Astra, Verano, and Cruze are all Delta II platforms. The Astra, Cruze and Verano are all significantly related, Astra uses the Cruze engines while the Verano uses only a select Cruze engine, Verano also has an exclusive 2.4 than the Astra does not use. Verano uses the interior of Astra J while the rest of the Verano come from the Cruze. Same thing with the transmissions.

The Verano uses a torsion beam rear suspension, that is what a Corolla uses, that is what a Cruze uses as well.

Toys4RJill

That is fine, then I think you need to go back and re-think about your comparison of a Verano and a Lexus IS.

First and foremost, the starting MSRP of the IS is $13,000 higher than that of the Verano, then there are facts such as the Verano being FWD (IS RW and AWD), the Verano uses struts at the front and a torsion bar set up at the rear (IS uses double wishbone front and mulit link rear). Lets also not forget that the IS is available with adaptive variable suspension in the F-Sport option and the IS also comes with two available V6 engines.


Comparing a Verano to the IS would almost be like comparing a Honda Ridgeline to a Dodge Ram.

yowps3

In Australia we call Cruze the Crude lol

And that's what it is. Junk

Toys4RJill

LOL, I don't know if I would call the Cruze junk, but looking at the individual parts of the Cruze, Verano, and Astra J I think the individual parts leave a lot to be desired.

When I look at ATS on the other hand, there are no arguments, it competes head on with the Lexus IS.

tex2670

I have to agree, and disagree at the same time.

On the one had, I don't see how one can say that any Buick cannot compete with any Lexus. I don't think this is true; in fact, I think the ES and the Lacrosse are direct competitors. Just because something may pale in comparison, doesn't mean that its not a competitor--just a weak one.

On the other hand, I can't just say that it's "under the badge" that matters. That would mean that a Toyota Highlander is a direct competitor with an RX350; I can't really accept that. A Highlander Limited may be a good low-cost alternative, but it's not a competitor. Nor is a Pilot vs an MDX.

mmarshall

Some good points, tex.

But, actually, even if you look under the badge, though they are obviously done on the same platform, there are significant differences between the Highlander and RX350. The amount of sound-insulation used, the interior trim, the damped-feel to some of the controls, and several other more-refined features are more noticeable in the RX. The extra money spent for an RX over a Highlander, IMO, generally buys a more pleasant vehicle, though the Highlander, with its boxier, styling, is admittedly more space-efficient inside.

LexBob2

The Cruze and Verano are definitely cousins. The question is are they 1st or 2nd cousins.

mmarshall

VERY distant cousins at most. Drive the two of them and you'll see for yourself.

mmarshall

Anyhow, folks...IMO, we've all gotten somewhat off-topic (yes, me included). The thread topic is the new 3Gen IS. But we've spent so much time on Buick, Chevy, Cadillac, and Opel that we kind of lost sight of that.

Toys4RJill

Actually, I would say they are related a little closer than that, brothers is what I would say. The Verano/Cruze is the modern day equivalent of the Buick Skylark/Oldsmobile Achieva. Would you ever compare the Skylark/ Achieva to a Lexus IS300?

tex2670

If you are reaching out to compare a car that's over 20 years old, from arguably the worst era in GM history to make your point, you have officially lost me...

mmarshall

To directly quote Car & Driver magazine, in their first Verano review, they said the Verano was enough to make one FINALLY forget the 1992 Skylark for good.


I owned an IS300 for almost five years, and put a fair number of miles on it. No, as tex2760 (correctly) pointed out, a 20-25 year-old GM design cannot compare with a Lexus design barely half that age. Some current Buicks/Cadillacs, though, are a different story. And, IMO, even more important......in some ways, the 1Gen IS300 was more solidly-built than its new 3Gen grandson. The 1Gen IS300, like the original SC300/400, LS400, and LS430, was a quality benchmark for Lexus.

Though there were definitely some things about the 1Gen IS300 I didn't like (mostly in the 5AT transmission's shifter action and programming), in 5 years, I had only one minor warranty repair, outside of routine service........an inoperative lower-front fog light. To date, in my Verano, I've had none.

Toys4RJill

I dunno, with the recent recall and cover-up by GM of the (57-cent) ignition switches, I think things haven't changed at all.

mmarshall

Those were on older GM cars.....produced before the buyout/reorganization. I myself didn't think much of them. I panned some of them them in reviews, but for other reasons. And are they any worse than runaway Toyota/Lexus electronic throttles? Both GM and Toyota took a lot of heat from the government for questionable designs. So did Ford (and Firestone) for Explorer/Mountaineer roll-overs, though, IMO, owner-neglect of tire PSI's also played a role in that one.

Toys4RJill

I attending at Lexus open house today at a local dealer by invite only. I got to test drive almost every Lexus available.

The Lexus IS is a stunning work of art for Lexus. They have finally designed a true BMW competitor that really makes driving enjoyable (if that is your thing).

The IS has finally developed it own personality compared to the rest of the Lexus line and what Lexus is traditionally known for.

I know the 2.5 and 3.5 are carryover engines, but they are using them differently compared to the last model. Sport mode really changes the feel of the engine.

Inside is great. The materials are very good and the design is great. Again, its got its own personality inside.

Overall, the current IS is the best IS today.

As for F-sport, the trick gauge cluster is awesome. The feel of the car is different than the IS regular.

What a great car.

And for mmarshall, you really are off in your idea that a Verano even comes close to the IS. They should never be compared, EVER. The IS is In a whole different league than a Verano.