Freedom of speech here on CL is one thing, but you probably wouldn't want to publically insult the Navigator (which is an upscale Expedition) or an Escalade around NFL or NBA guys, who love those two vehicles and help keep their sales figures going. Those guys are solid muscle, and some of them, with egos to match, aren't known for having easy tempers, either.

 

I like cars with some weight. Most cars under 1.5 tonnes have the tin can feel to them.

 

IMO, it's not about the overall weight, it's about how they carry that weight. Traditionally, the Europeans (mainly the Germans) seem to have been able to maintain a certain level of "nimbleness" with their SUVs compared to some of the other makes.

 

Say what you want about that, but I've driven extensively both 2010+ model years Suburbans and the Ford Expedition EL. Honestly I prefer the way the Ford drives/handles/rides. I will admit the Suburban handles better and is a bit more agile. But man the Ford rides so much nicer, tracks straight down the road, and just feels so much more solid when it hits a bump, ie it doesn't rattle/reverberate like the Suburban. It feels like you are driving a tank behind the wheel of the Expedition, for better or worse.

 

^^ this

apple to apple and we should talk about all the "real" suv. even rx i call it borderline. looking at gx and lx and they are super heavy

i don't care about excuses, but if i want suv, i want strong and heavy duty and i won't mind weight

 

Europe just is similar to the China. Accidents happen every day, quick, and with more chance of fatalities. That is why they need more solid, metal caged vehicle. Especially for a family, hence SUV and VAN take bigger hit.

 

You do realise that's utter nonesense, right?

One thing I've noticed when comparing weights is that some manufacturer will quote a dry weight - no fluids or driver, while some will quote a weight that includes a full tank of fuel and fluids. It's surprising the difference that can make.

 

are you serious?!)

 

I think it's more a matter of the use to which European/Asian/North American vehicles are put than anything else. Here in the US, SUVs are extremely popular, but are seldom used as trucks. Lighter weight and somewhat reduced offroad capabilities in some play to the desire for better fuel economy and performance (the straight-line variety) that Americans seem to want. Our American body-on-frame SUVs are plenty rugged, with the offerings from Jeep probably the most suited to offroading - even in monocoque construction.

Then there's the matter of sales volume. Yeah, among small SUV's, the only offerings with any real chance at offroading are the Jeep Wrangler, Nissan Xterra and Toyota FJ. Jeep outsells the other two by nearly 10:1, and that gap is widening. *

Compare that to most "foreign" SUVs that began as export vehicles to third-world nations where actual roads are not always a priority as are the interstates here at home. Sure, there are plenty of Land Rover and Geländewagen owners in more posh applications today that absorb a good bit of the SUV market in Europe, but the roots of their rides are still there. In the US, an SUV has to be price-competitive in its market. We'd have trouble selling $120K SUV's, even to rap stars.

Here at home, it's interesting to note the the WSJ is showing gains among crossovers, minivans, and small SUVs, as car sales decline across the board. It looks like building a smaller, more efficient SUV makes better marketing sense than large 4WD luxo-boats. **
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* http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/09...-2013-ytd.html
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/11...-2013-ytd.html

** http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/pag...autosales.html

 

lmao now that's one silly post

maybe you should do some reading say... right here

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/the...r-drivers.html

I won't talk about China, that's a disaster. But Europe? Well I don't know which part of Europe you talk about but a lot of the European countries they have far better drivers, they actually know how to drive

By your analysis everyone in the US needs to drive a damn tank

 

That's absolutly very true because people need to attend driving school to get the licence so they learn from experienced license teachers not from mom and pop who themselfs are not very good at this. Plus in most of the nothers Europe countries you need to take a test driving in snow as well not just in summer.
And their cars are much smaller than US so that's false as well. They sell models so small thay are not even available in US, POLO, A2, A1, KA, etc. I doubt that guy even been in Europe.