mmarshall

Problem is, the Equus just isn't selling well. A shame, too......except for the aforementioned ridiculous color-choice, the public seems to be missing out on a bargain. It's not quite as refined in its road-manners as the Lexus LS460, I'll admit, but, dollar-for-dollar, IMO, it gives more value.

We'll see, of course, how the K900 does.

Thanks for bringing that up. I forgot to check on that with the VW people Friday at the D.C. show. I'll be going back a couple more times next week, though....I'll note it. Earlier hints, months ago, though, indicated that the name "Phaeton" might be returned for the U.S. market, but in a sedan somewhat physically smaller than the last one, which, size-wise, competed with the Audi A8, BMW 7-series, and Mercedes S-class, even offering a W12 engine option.

SW17LS

I don't think you can make the conclusion that it "isn't selling well". Its not meant to sell in high numbers, they do almost no advertising, most dealers not only don't sell them...but aren't authorized to sell them...so they aren't exactly out there hustling to sell more of them.

mmarshall

I agree on the dealer-restriction issues....but, nevertheless, Hyundai obviously made the LS460 its primary target. Heck, you can tell that just by LOOKING at the two cars. And, even with the lower price and LS460-like looks inside and out, you're not going to sell cars in the 60K range (at least not in Lexus LS numbers) by offering only four black-and-white photo colors and hamstringing dealerships. Not only that, but the Equus will soon have competition from its own brother Kia K9000.

hlee12

why are you still bringing up colors?

like i said hyundai have 5 colors in various tones. only 2 less than LS. and those 2 colors are red and light brown. 2 colors which could hurt the image.

yeah, they could bump it to 10 like S class and have 2 kinds of white, silver, black, etc, etc. but again maybe it could create more problems. i'm sure there is a valid reason why they chose 5 colors.

and ask Jag about XJ sales. they do have 15 colors.

dec 2013 sales #

Sclass 1,857
7series 1,119
LS 1,064
A8 718
XJ 449
Equus 352

mmarshall

Because, right now, it's one of two main issues that keeps depressing Hyundai sales...and some people just keep trying to sweep it under the rug and pretend like that is not a problem. This thread's topic concerns a (possible) Hyundai luxury division...presumably which would feature the Equus and maybe some other products. Right now, the Equus just isn't selling in the kind of numbers that most of agree would be needed to justify an investment in a whole new division and dealer-network.

LexBob2

Are you saying that having a few more colors available would turn things around, volume-wise for them?

hlee12

i'm not sure if this or or is more appropriate for this post. many posters here posted valid reasons why color is not the problem. you on the hand has a blind faith that color is 1 of 2 main problem why equus is not selling well.

and so based on sales number, hyundai shouldn't try the luxury division? you do know equus wears hyundai badge, right? how many A8 would sell if A8 was VW? how many S class would sell if S class wasn't MB? i wonder how many phaetons Audi would've sold.

keep believing what you are believing. because i sense that no matter what kind of logical argument people may post, you probably already made up your mind on things already and won't ever change what you believe in. i rest my case.

SW17LS

This is your opinion and that opinion has no basis in anything but your own view of what a manufacturer should offer. We've shown that they have the vast majority of colors sold covered, so I don't see how any logical conclusion can be made that lack of color choice contributes to poor sales...but I never understand your logic so I suppose it is what it is.

You speak with a lot of authority when you say "This IS one of two reasons Hyundais ales are depressed" and I don't know of any credentials, access or knowledge you have to make firm statements like that. I think perhaps you should use the language "I think" or "in my opinion" because that's all it is

Sulu

The Hyundai Genesis sedan and Equus may be suffering from the same problem that the VW Phaeton suffered from: they are wearing the wrong brand badge.

Hyundai and VW are perceived as mass-market vehicle brands and not luxury brands, so people go to their showrooms looking for inexpensive, value-filled compact and mid-sized sedans rather than more expensive, full-size luxury sedans.

That perception alone may spell the need for a dedicated luxury brand, should Hyundai-Kia decide to go in that direction. They could start by copying a page from the Chrysler playbook: keep Kia (Dodge) as the inexpensive, value-filled, mass-market brand, and move Hyundai (Chrysler) upscale to compete with Buick, Lincoln and Chrysler, rather than Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge.

stlgrym3

iTrader: (4)

LOL, with emblem of a sideway "A"

mmarshall

Might not wave a magic wand, but it sure wouldn't hurt.

mmarshall

It's nothing special about me, or simply because I'm speaking it. Doesn't take much sense to put two and two together. Heck, a grade-school kid can figure that out. 2+2=4 is not opinion, but simple fact. One does not have to be Einstein to understand that.

I didn't "Make up my Mind" on anything. The market itself spoke, with its $$$$$. That's not me....that's simply people ignoring the car.

FishBike

I think they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. The Hyundai brand is well-known, but well-known for cheap, crappy cars. The "crappy" part of that has changed, and they are still in the middle of having the perception of the brand change to match.

A new brand doesn't start out well-known for anything, which could be an advantage for them, but there are so many ways to get it wrong. Like if they just move over a couple of current models, it becomes known as a "re-badged Hyundai (or worse, Kia)". Or just picking a brand name that doesn't sound right for a luxury brand (which is why Kia is "worse" in the preceding sentence, it sounds too cute for luxury cars).

So they'd have to pick a great name AND launch it with a new car that really makes the right kind of first impression. Which, come to think of it, is what Lexus did.

Or they need to wait until they've got a really solid brand perception for making good regular cars, and then people will be more ready to believe they are making good luxury cars as well.

nabbun

VW Phaeton proves you don't need a luxury brand to release expensive vehicles.

The Genesis and Equus doesn't sell well because they aren't great vehicles.

chikoo

Like I always said, the product makes the brand, not the other way around.
If the newer hyundai offerings are up to par, then it can sell luxury cars under the same name.
Mercedes sells all it makes under the same brand. Why not hyundai?