Toyota fires bullets into hydrogen fuel tanks, shoots down EV supporters
01-17-14, 02:47 PM
#16
Maybe you have a different idea of what practical is. But without any place to fuel up your hydrogen car, I would not call that practical.
As for a hydrogen car being green, sure it is great if hydrogen was readily available. But to produce it takes energy, and any time you are converting one form of energy to another, there is loss. If your source is natural gas or through electrolysis or whatever, you've wasted energy instead of using the NG or electricity outright.
An EV is about 80% efficient or something like that, from generation to power to road. Hydrogen won't come anywhere near that.
As for a hydrogen car being green, sure it is great if hydrogen was readily available. But to produce it takes energy, and any time you are converting one form of energy to another, there is loss. If your source is natural gas or through electrolysis or whatever, you've wasted energy instead of using the NG or electricity outright.
An EV is about 80% efficient or something like that, from generation to power to road. Hydrogen won't come anywhere near that.
Please understand that EV's dont use natural gas or coal "outright".
Once again, power plants powered by coal and natural gas are 40% efficient on average. When you use electricity, it has to be generated by something and this case it is power plant. Elecricity does not come from the sky, it is not free, you are converting coal or natural gas to elecricity, and wasting 60% of it.
01-17-14, 04:40 PM
#17
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spwolf is right, at least according to Toyota estimations.
Have a look at the table about well-to-wheel efficiencies on page 3 here:
http://www.toyota.com/esq/pdf/Toyota...ynote_2010.pdf
Have a look at the table about well-to-wheel efficiencies on page 3 here:
http://www.toyota.com/esq/pdf/Toyota...ynote_2010.pdf
01-17-14, 06:15 PM
#18
Lexus Champion
I find Toyota's projections wildly optimistic. Either way, I would much rather have an EV. With hydrogen I'm still a slave to the pump I have no option to generate and store my own energy.
01-17-14, 08:13 PM
#19
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No. Converting energy from coal, NG, solar etc. to electricity is not the same as producing hydrogen and using it as fuel. You are adding the extra process to produce, store and transport. That extra step is hugely wasteful, the hydrogen becomes the energy carrier not the energy source.
01-18-14, 01:44 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Many gearheads will remember that the 1970s-era Dodge Dart's claim to fame was that its motor was so durable (though not necessarily powerful) that one could shoot bullets into the engine block.
After debuting it in Tokyo late last year, Toyota showed off its FCV fuel-cell concept vehicle at the Detroit Auto Show this week as it get ready to start sales "around 2015." The car has a 300-mile range and should be priced somewhere between $50,000 and $100,000.
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