Allen K

iTrader: (4)

I don't know the basics work well enough. Setting temperature and what not. Try to input an address though

bruce van

We just got a 2013 ES so I can chime in on this one. The climate control is basically super easy to operate. You just have to get away from the 3 **** method. In actuality, the AUTO setting should be all you need really. Leave it on auto and computer will do the rest. Otherwise, all of the controls are still there, they just look different.

We opted for the model with Navigation and after spending time with it, I think that Lexus has a lot more to learn about user interface design. Technology doesn't have to be complicated. Look at Apple. The iPhone if packed with technology, but it's easy to use.

Having spent a couple of months with the ES, operation is not intuitive and operation is cumbersome and looks like it was designed by someone who graduated from design school in the late 80's. Seriously, the buttons with the cheap shadows are horrible.

If I could sit down with the Lexus engineers, I'd give them a nice list of things they could change to make the experience so much better.

Lil4X

I had the opportunity to drive a '52 Chevy pickup a few weeks ago (one of the vehicles on my serious "want" list), and it was a revelation. Three-speed on the column, four pedals on the floor (the one on the far right was the starter), simple gauge cluster, speedo, water temp, oil pressure, fuel and AMPS (that doesn't require translation as to battery state). ***** for lights, wipers, throttle and choke. Two **** AM radio, one **** heater fan. Period.

Start by pulling choke and throttle ***** about halfway out, clutch in, step on that big rubber starter button. You don't need to look at the tach to see if the stove-bolt six is running, there isn't one. Besides you can't miss the clatter coming from forward of the firewall, it's a 216 CID (3.5 L) OHV, solid-lifter straight six making about 95 hp, and doing so with an appropriate amount of noise.

Once the engine is warm, push in the choke and throttle (that sets the idle speed lower for normal operation) as you move off. Shifting was pretty smooth if you took your time and let the synchronizers work for you. Double-clutching into non-synchro low was a rite of passage for a couple of generations of farm kids. The radio was a nice option, but it was not exactly great quality and you had to crank it up to make it heard over the clatter of the engine and the boom of the open cab.

The navigation system resided in the glove compartment, a Texaco map and a pencil . . . maybe an aftermarket compass affixed to the dashboard, if you lived East of the Mississippi where roads didn't all run North-South or East-West. It was pretty hard to get lost when all you had to do was look at your shadow for directions. The rest of the vehicle was about as simple as it gets:

The climate control was adjusted at speed by moving the vent wings, and rolling down the windows - you DO remember hand-cranks don't you? For more air, open the cowl vent by giving that big plastic **** under the dash a mighty shove.

No turn signals, you communicated with the vehicle behind by rolling down the window and sticking your arm out to indicate your directional intentions. Otherwise, you had a single horn with which you corrected others on the road. When that failed, you had a quarter-inch of steel hanging out in front, we called a bumper . . . or under the proper circumstances, a ram, to encourage other drivers to move along.

Crude? Yes, by today's standards, but it was a LOT of fun too. It was honest and simple. Anyone with a couple of wrenches, a screwdriver, a hammer, and a pair of pliers could take it apart under a shade tree in their driveway. No electronic diagnosis, you knew that the engine required fuel, air, and spark - and it was a simple matter to discover where the problem was (almost always the spark). You carried points and a plug or two in the glove compartment - just in case.

With a 6.5 compression ratio, that old six would run on anything that would burn and you could pour in the tank. In the Texas oilfields of the early '50's gas was free, because you could always trap a bucket of "drip gas" from a wellhead, pour it in the tank, and motor away. You couldn't do that with your V8 DeSoto. To say the old sixes were omnivorous might be putting a fine point on it, but if you changed the oil and cleaned the oil-bath air filter regularly, these things were very near immortal.

Everyone ought to drive an old pickup . . . one that's probably older than your father. It gives you an appreciation for climate control, designer stereo, navigation, automated everything, even seat belts. No, those wouldn't arrive for another ten years yet. We just made do with what we had . . . and hung on. If you find an old pickup that's relatively original, you've found a gem. Too many people put them on bags, drop in an LS1 and a six-speed, replace the brakes and suspension, and spend about eight grand on paint. I kinda like the original . . .

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Gorgeous and stylish

Hpnotiq

It's all about the simple drive... too many beeps, reminders, etc take away from the ability to drive... that when people crash and die...

If you need beeps to tell you where your car is when you're parking... you probably suited to drive...

mmarshall

I agree with much of what you say about simplicity, Bob, but don't forget that some of those more-complex modern features were developed for good reason. Not everyone had (or has) the co-ordination needed to properly double clutch or heel/toe-shift, necessating gear-synchros. Electronic fuel-injection was developed because carburators (especially those with automatic chokes and manifold heat-risers) almost never seemed to work properly....you either got too much fuel, not enough, or back and forth, leading to inevitable stumbles/stalls and carburator-icing. And recirculating-ball steering was sometimes OK when brand-new, but give it some miles and wear, and, particularly without a power-booster, you inevitably got slop and free-play across the middle, notably degrading the handling. Rack-and-pinion, though more costly and complex, solved that problem.

jwong77

+1, at some point they're gonna start installing beeps that remind you to breath.

mmarshall

Interlock devices which sense high BAC on one's breath and block out the car's starter can already be installed, by court-order, for drivers with multiple DWIs (if they haven't already had their license suspended or revoked)....the details of those laws vary by state.

Sulu

My wife has a problem with the newest computer technology and it is something I worry about in our cars.

When I was shopping for my Corolla 4 years ago, the top-of-the-line Canadian LE model came with smart key/push-button start and automatic climate control; when it came down to actually signing the lease, Toyota Canada had come out with a slightly decontented model, removing the smart key and the automatic climate control so I went with that simpler model.

I was afraid that my wife, at the few times that she may drive my car, would become confused by the push-button start, especially if it is not a "press and forget" system where you merely press and release to start or stop the engine (I have noticed people become confused and possibly frustrated by "press and hold until something happens" buttons); and the automatic climate control would be a waste for her because she has a habit of turning off the system (turning off the fan) completely.

I was a bit worried when my wife bought her 2013 Accord last fall. It comes with the big centre dial to operate the user interface. Fortunately, you do not have to fiddle with any of the settings prior to driving off for the first time. Regardless, she never touches it; I am always the one fiddling with the settings, such as the Bluetooth settings for our smartphones (something else wasted on my wife).

But even I become confused and frustrated by that relatively simple Honda system because that dial is surrounded by push-buttons that are not completely intuitive (and I work with high-tech software). Fortunately, Honda has deleted the sea of Starship Enterprise buttons and simplified the HVAC control (I would have screamed at the top of my lungs if I had to drive a new Honda with all those buttons).

And I have noticed that my wife has stopped looking at the backup camera display in her Accord (after praising it non-stop when she first bought the car), reverting back to the tried-and-true mirrors and shoulder check.

LexFather

It does take a lot to learn the new tech quickly and we don't even use many of the features.

I've driven maybe a dozen different cars in the last week and the newer they are, the more stuff to mess with. I rented an Infiniti JX today and it took me a minute to figure out how to make the NAV screen brighter and its still talking to me in French . The Ford Fusion I had was a ton of buttons as the Malibu and trying to figure out some basic functions seems to be hit or miss to me.

But I do welcome the tech and new features.

NYKnick101

Complexity is definitly determined in the eyes of the beholder. If it was up to me, All car interior's would look like this. (says the guy who drives a lexus with nav lol)

mmarshall

What do you think of the JX now that you've had some time to examine and drive it? When I did my full-review on one, you said, at the time, that you thought it was just an overpriced Pathfinder.

Lil4X

Some years ago I rented a new Ford at Louis Armstrong Airport in New Orleans. It was midnight and the airport was closing, and most of the streetlights were off. When I got in the car it was pitch black, no dome light, and only instrument lights to illuminate the unfamiliar panel. Of course there was no owner's manual, so I fumbled around in the dark trying to get the headlights on - without success.

I found that if I pulled the signal stalk I could get the brights on using the familiar flash-to-pass feature that was common in Europe and just appearing in the US at that point. Fortunately I owned a European car at the time and was familiar with the feature. I was not, however familiar with Ford's more arcane switchgear. I drove off the airport grounds holding the stalk to keep the lights on and dragging the brake to give me some kind of rear lights as I pulled onto the boulevard. A few blocks later I found an all-night service station, under whose lights I finally was able to search the panel for labels for the various switches. I found the dome light after some scrutiny - some helpful person had set it to "stealth" mode where it wouldn't come on when the doors were opened -, but I still couldn't find the headlight switch.

Determined not to drive all the way to Gulfport hanging onto the flash-to-pass lever, I continued to flail about until I accidentally pushed the turn signal lever, et voila! the headlights came on. Not really the most intuitive place to put the headlight switch, but in the small hours of the morning on a rather dark and empty street, I'd take it if it were placed under the front bumper.

A couple of years later in 1980, my Dad married a lady in Kansas who had been a college friend. She had a brand new, loaded to the gills, Ford Crown Vic, and brought it down to Houston with her when she moved. One evening I get a call - it was Dad, who was hastening to pick up my step-mom-to-be from a salon appointment. He'd never driven her car at night and was completely flummoxed by the lack of a headlight switch. OK, this guy's an electrical engineer and a major gearhead. Having to call his son across town because he can't get his headlights on was probably indicative of the level of panic he was beginning to experience.

"No problem, Dad", I promised calmly, "Just push the turn signal stalk away from you." It worked. He thought his kid was a genius. I didn't tell him about driving out of the New Orleans airport hanging onto the turn signal lever so I could see. I'd opted for smug self-satisfaction over truth.

mmarshall

Bob.....the whole reason why American manufacturers, decades ago, decided to follow the European/Japanese lead and convert to headlight low/high beam stalks was because of awkwardness and problems in using the old foot-buttons. As more and more Americans started using floor-mats (particularly those that weren't custom-cut to the footwell's shape), the buttons ended up hidden under the mats, and you were pressing all over the place with your left foot and getting nowhere. Also, dirt and moisture, if mats weren't sometimes found its way into the floor-switch itself and corroded or shorted things out. Placing the high-beam control on a column-stalk killed several birds with one stone.

That's also, BTW, one reason why the high-beam-on indicator light, by law, was officially changed to blue. Earlier cars had the indicator in any number of colors (my dad's old 1961 full-sized Dodge, for example, had a red indicator). Standardizing the indicator light in blue made things a lot simpler if and when you were driving different cars.

LexFather

As of right now its so hopelessly average I much prefer the Durango or Explorer I've had over it. And I'm almost embarrassed to drive it, its just ugly as sin. It creaks, the leather is cheap, the materials are fake in many cases and its harsh over any road not smooth not to mention it is slow. The good things the cameras, the 3rd row is not bad at all, its cheap, the CVT is smooth and it has nice Lexus like gauges.

Full review to come.....if I don't puke to death