View Poll Results: Is this the GS F?
Yes
4
66.67%
No
2
33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll
Lexus GS F sightings (updated pg 20)
07-30-13, 01:56 PM
#61
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yes. $100k+ cars. lexus should stay away as much as possible.
this has nothing to do with the topic at hand
i dont think anybody doubts their engineering prowess. how much R&D do they spend on making fast cars vs hybrids? that is the question...
there is no business case. people who can buy 100k sports cars want the prestige of a german car. lexus knows this. there is no need to compete against the M5 when they hardly have a 550i competitor. as much as lexus tried to push the GS450h as that car, being a hybrid, it just isnt the same. the GSF should compete against a well optioned 550i M Sport at about 75k.
You do realize that Toyota as a company has far more cash reserves than either BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen right? If it wanted to, Toyota could probably buy out BMW and Mercedes immediately. And BOTH companies at once. VW would be harder but would be a matter of time only.
Don't mistake secretiveness and Japanese penchant for reserved behavior for lack of engineering prowess and ability. If I'm not wrong, Toyota has a far larger budget for and spent much more on research and development than the big German 3.
It's not a question of whether Toyota/Lexus can engineer a car to beat the M5/RS6/AMG. That's a given. It's a matter of whether the Lexus executives can make a good business case to the higher Toyota echelon that making a GS-F is worth their while.
07-30-13, 02:18 PM
#62
2014 Lexus GS F
When Lexus unveiled the IS F back in 2008, the world seemed to be impressed. While German automakers pointed and laughed at it, the model climbed its way up to be strong competitor on the market, and now Lexus is preparing another model fit to give its German competitors more reasons to fear. The Japanese market is preparing to launch the GS F, a model that will take on vehicles like the BMW M5 and the Mercedes E63 AMG.
This isn’t the first time we see something about the GS F, but this time, its official: an F version will be launched with the new generation GS set to be revealed sometime in 2012.
Expect the future GS F to combine design elements from the future generation GS and F elements from the IS-F sports sedan. Under the hood there will be the same V8 engine as found in the IS-F, but upgraded to deliver somewhere in the 450 HP range.
UPDATE 03/26/2012: In an interview with Autocar, Karl Schlicht has offered new details on the production version GS F super sedan. According to him, a final decision is yet to be made, but Lexus would love to see it put into production as "the final piece in a five-part product strategy to boost Lexus’s image and its sporting credentials." He also said that, if approved, the "GS F would be as much a potent grand tourer as an out-and-out focused driving tool."
UPDATE 03/28/2012: Today we have a new rendering for you for the upcoming Lexus GS F.
Hit the jump to read more about the future Lexus GS F.
Exterior and Interior
The difference between a standard GS model and the GS F will be made by a hood raised in the center to make room for the V8 engine. There will also be large brake cooling ducts adjacent to standard fog lamps, LED headlights, functional front fender air outlets with lower edges, four exhaust diffusers (two per side in a vertical arrangement), and 19" light alloy wheels.
The interior will get sports seats, aluminum-rimmed main gauges, unique steering-wheel treatment, and, of course, the F logo showcased on the steering wheel, rear-center console, and outer seat cushions.
The Engine
The 2012 GS will be built on a brand new platform which will be sportier and more efficient. The engine line-up will include a new V6 engine and a 3.5 liter engine that will replace the current 4.6-liter V-8. A hybrid version has also been confirmed.
And if you were expecting to see a V10 engine under the hood of the GS F, well this just won’t happen. Instead, Lexus will use an upgraded version of the 5.0-liter V-8 from the IS-F, developing around 450 HP. It will also get a torque vectoring differential on the rear axle and a weight reduction thanks to the use of carbon-fiber.
This isn’t the first time we see something about the GS F, but this time, its official: an F version will be launched with the new generation GS set to be revealed sometime in 2012.
Expect the future GS F to combine design elements from the future generation GS and F elements from the IS-F sports sedan. Under the hood there will be the same V8 engine as found in the IS-F, but upgraded to deliver somewhere in the 450 HP range.
UPDATE 03/26/2012: In an interview with Autocar, Karl Schlicht has offered new details on the production version GS F super sedan. According to him, a final decision is yet to be made, but Lexus would love to see it put into production as "the final piece in a five-part product strategy to boost Lexus’s image and its sporting credentials." He also said that, if approved, the "GS F would be as much a potent grand tourer as an out-and-out focused driving tool."
UPDATE 03/28/2012: Today we have a new rendering for you for the upcoming Lexus GS F.
Hit the jump to read more about the future Lexus GS F.
Exterior and Interior
The difference between a standard GS model and the GS F will be made by a hood raised in the center to make room for the V8 engine. There will also be large brake cooling ducts adjacent to standard fog lamps, LED headlights, functional front fender air outlets with lower edges, four exhaust diffusers (two per side in a vertical arrangement), and 19" light alloy wheels.
The interior will get sports seats, aluminum-rimmed main gauges, unique steering-wheel treatment, and, of course, the F logo showcased on the steering wheel, rear-center console, and outer seat cushions.
The Engine
The 2012 GS will be built on a brand new platform which will be sportier and more efficient. The engine line-up will include a new V6 engine and a 3.5 liter engine that will replace the current 4.6-liter V-8. A hybrid version has also been confirmed.
And if you were expecting to see a V10 engine under the hood of the GS F, well this just won’t happen. Instead, Lexus will use an upgraded version of the 5.0-liter V-8 from the IS-F, developing around 450 HP. It will also get a torque vectoring differential on the rear axle and a weight reduction thanks to the use of carbon-fiber.
07-30-13, 02:33 PM
#63
there is no business case. people who can buy 100k sports cars want the prestige of a german car. lexus knows this. there is no need to compete against the M5 when they hardly have a 550i competitor. as much as lexus tried to push the GS450h as that car, being a hybrid, it just isnt the same. the GSF should compete against a well optioned 550i M Sport at about 75k.
How many Lexus's or 100k cars did you own in the past? I am not sure why do you think that your opinion is more valid that ones from other members who actually own all these vehicles.
07-30-13, 02:33 PM
#64
Pole Position
M5's, AMGs and RS Audi's aren't for profit margins but to make a statement for the company, a halo effect if you will.
The LFA doesn't make a business case in the short term but along-term halo effect? Definitely.
If Toyota sets out to make the GS-F, it will be firstly to make a statement of intent that it is here to play with the big boys. It may not make any short term profits but like you say, it's to SHATTER the perception that it can't muster the engineering and prestige that an M5 can command.
REALITY = Toyota is a far bigger engineering titan than the German 3 by sheer cash reserves and the engineering resources it has at its disposal
PERCEPTION = Toyota is lagging in engineering as perceived by uninformed people like madfast who mistakes caution for inability
If Toyota decides that shattering this wrong perception is worth taking short term losses in developing a M5 beating GS-F and the longterm benefits of that halo effect is worth it, then expect Toyota not to go half-way but all out to make an M5 look silly.
Making a 550i competitor is the worst possible business case : V8s sell in such small quantities as it is. There is no halo or perception-shattering benefit to making a 550i competitor and at the same time little or no profits will materialise anyway.
If Toyota is to make a V8 GS, it is to shatter long held misconceptions firstly and profits be damned. In that case, Toyota will be shooting for the M5's of this world and not 550i. The 550i is too small fish for Toyota.
The LFA doesn't make a business case in the short term but along-term halo effect? Definitely.
If Toyota sets out to make the GS-F, it will be firstly to make a statement of intent that it is here to play with the big boys. It may not make any short term profits but like you say, it's to SHATTER the perception that it can't muster the engineering and prestige that an M5 can command.
REALITY = Toyota is a far bigger engineering titan than the German 3 by sheer cash reserves and the engineering resources it has at its disposal
PERCEPTION = Toyota is lagging in engineering as perceived by uninformed people like madfast who mistakes caution for inability
If Toyota decides that shattering this wrong perception is worth taking short term losses in developing a M5 beating GS-F and the longterm benefits of that halo effect is worth it, then expect Toyota not to go half-way but all out to make an M5 look silly.
Making a 550i competitor is the worst possible business case : V8s sell in such small quantities as it is. There is no halo or perception-shattering benefit to making a 550i competitor and at the same time little or no profits will materialise anyway.
If Toyota is to make a V8 GS, it is to shatter long held misconceptions firstly and profits be damned. In that case, Toyota will be shooting for the M5's of this world and not 550i. The 550i is too small fish for Toyota.
07-30-13, 02:56 PM
#66
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also, 400hp is already a lot of power on the road already on most cars, most people can't even handle that much power. why not settle for it then? and who is the expert to say that 400hp would be the perfect balance for the gs chassis? i am just trying to look for more justifications on the rumored 460hp as the ideal.
if the f10 and the w212 chassis can somewhat handle 550hp, then with the far superior chassis of the gs, i think it SHOULD at least be able to handle 500hp.
07-30-13, 03:16 PM
#67
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which is why you should stay away.
and the GSF is that car? not a new SC or LF-LC? how many halo cars has lexus built?
i dont think my opinion is more valid. im just floored that there are people ignorant enough to believe lexus has a 500-600hp twin turbo V8 waiting to be introduced.
the LFA does this already (halo car) and the approved for production LF-LC will be the next halo car. the M5/M6 is probably BMW's halo car until they release something better. no need for a halo GSF.
so we're gonna pretend that the LFA doesnt exist? or that the LF-LC wont exist? and instead put our faith in a 600hp twin turbo GSF? really?
worse idea than a M5 fighting "halo car" GSF? i think not.
You build $100k cars so you build up your brand cachet so you can sell more of $30k, $40k, $50k, $60k cars.
How many Lexus's or 100k cars did you own in the past? I am not sure why do you think that your opinion is more valid that ones from other members who actually own all these vehicles.
M5's, AMGs and RS Audi's aren't for profit margins but to make a statement for the company, a halo effect if you will.
The LFA doesn't make a business case in the short term but along-term halo effect? Definitely.
If Toyota sets out to make the GS-F, it will be firstly to make a statement of intent that it is here to play with the big boys. It may not make any short term profits but like you say, it's to SHATTER the perception that it can't muster the engineering and prestige that an M5 can command.
The LFA doesn't make a business case in the short term but along-term halo effect? Definitely.
If Toyota sets out to make the GS-F, it will be firstly to make a statement of intent that it is here to play with the big boys. It may not make any short term profits but like you say, it's to SHATTER the perception that it can't muster the engineering and prestige that an M5 can command.
If Toyota decides that shattering this wrong perception is worth taking short term losses in developing a M5 beating GS-F and the longterm benefits of that halo effect is worth it, then expect Toyota not to go half-way but all out to make an M5 look silly.
Making a 550i competitor is the worst possible business case : V8s sell in such small quantities as it is. There is no halo or perception-shattering benefit to making a 550i competitor and at the same time little or no profits will materialise anyway.
Last edited by madfast; 07-30-13 at 03:27 PM.
07-30-13, 03:37 PM
#69
not many people buy $100k cars, period. You build $100k cars so you build up your brand cachet so you can sell more of $30k, $40k, $50k, $60k cars.
How many Lexus's or 100k cars did you own in the past? I am not sure why do you think that your opinion is more valid that ones from other members who actually own all these vehicles.
How many Lexus's or 100k cars did you own in the past? I am not sure why do you think that your opinion is more valid that ones from other members who actually own all these vehicles.
07-30-13, 03:43 PM
#70
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i would be mind blowingly surprised if the GSF doesnt get the 5L V8, shared with the RCF. i would gladly eat crow if news comes out otherwise but i think im safe this time around.
07-30-13, 04:16 PM
#71
not you specifically, but others have already said this as if there is a snowballs chance in hell. in fact early on people speculated that the GSF may get some version of the LFA V10. that's when i knew some people were off their rockers...
i would be mind blowingly surprised if the GSF doesnt get the 5L V8, shared with the RCF. i would gladly eat crow if news comes out otherwise but i think im safe this time around.
i would be mind blowingly surprised if the GSF doesnt get the 5L V8, shared with the RCF. i would gladly eat crow if news comes out otherwise but i think im safe this time around.
07-30-13, 04:23 PM
#72
not you specifically, but others have already said this as if there is a snowballs chance in hell. in fact early on people speculated that the GSF may get some version of the LFA V10. that's when i knew some people were off their rockers...
i would be mind blowingly surprised if the GSF doesnt get the 5L V8, shared with the RCF. i would gladly eat crow if news comes out otherwise but i think im safe this time around.
i would be mind blowingly surprised if the GSF doesnt get the 5L V8, shared with the RCF. i would gladly eat crow if news comes out otherwise but i think im safe this time around.
..............
07-30-13, 07:24 PM
#75
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VW would be harder but would be a matter of time only.
