tex2670

So--if you opt not to get Quattro on an Audi, are you buying a luxury car?

Vladi

People don't care much about FWD/RWD when they are buying luxury cars. They care about the experience and experience is a combination of things.

ISFPOWER

iTrader: (20)

you guys can google fwd vs rwd for luxury cars. the handling and power delivery of a RWD is different which comes in hand with luxury cars. look at the top luxury cars for the last two decades and name me a FWD car. awd, gets the ok from me. FWD from acura, fail.

mmarshall

I disagree. The worse the weather gets, the more appealing FWD or AWD becomes, and the less RWD becomes.

tex2670

Sorry--but you just can't convince me that an Acura RL is not a luxury car just because it has FWD. It's just nonsense. And--by that logic, if you opt for the AWD version, does it suddenly become a luxury car? Even having owned a 2000 TL, I will immediately agree with many things that are posted on CL about Acura. I agree that the RL is NOT "flagship" luxury car, and doesn't even really compete well with other cars in the mid-range luxury class. The styling is uninspiring, etc., etc. In fact, when I bought my TL, even then I couldn't understand why people bought the RL--the TL had as much power, 95% of the same features, the same amount of interior space, and more trunk room, and cost $10,000. But, people bought them. But I just don't see how it's just automatically not a luxury car.

I don't understand how "handling" and "power" delivery makes a vehicle a luxury car--doesn't that make it a sports car? Why can't a luxury car be plush, and classy? So--the Lexus ES is not a luxury car? But the IS is a luxury car? What about their best selling model--the RX? Not everyone wants a sporty, curve hugging car--some drivers want that plush, floaty feeling.

I think that all the people who bought FWD Caddy's and Lincolns would argue that they bought luxury cars. While many of the CL faithful (myself included) would not be caught dead in a Caddy STS or DTS, or a Lincoln Continental/MKZ, I don't think it's correct or fair to say those are not luxury cars. They are clearly not sports sedans, but they are most certainly luxury cars.

What about the Hyundai Genesis? It's RWD, can be had with leather, loads of high tech features. It's plush, and pampers its occupants. Does that make it a luxury car?

Say what you will, but FWD/RWD/AWD has nothing to do with whether a car is luxury car. Isn't it about a classy, exclusive car that feels rich and has cutting edge features and technology?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...ars/51550684/1

mmarshall

I agree with you in principle, but the RL has not had FWD in the American market since the 1Gen model. The 2Gen model was completely redesigned and given the then-new SH-AWD system.

FWD or AWD, though some on this forum may disagree, I consider the RL a luxury-car, though it is clearly not the size of a true luxury-car flagship. In fact, IMO, the 1Gen RL, with FWD, was probably more of a true luxury-car than the AWD 2Gen model from its ride, if nothng else. The FWD 1Gen RL rode smoother then the 2Gen model. In fact, at the time, some pundits (including me) called the 1Gen model a Japanese Buick......whch, even in styling, it indeed was.

ISFPOWER

iTrader: (20)

RWD has a lot to do with a luxury car. Big body, heavy insulated luxury cars need power to move them.. Big engine with a fwd = torque steer , understeer and beat up cv axles over sooner. Awd is ok since it helps with handling and driving characteristic. example...acura made the type SH awd for a reason.

while you are thinking luxury amenities, all flag ship luxury vehicles are RWD, plain and simple. its not to make it feel like a sports car,

here are some links you can read.

http://www.oncars.com/news-blogs/sto...ormance-Review

http://www.edmunds.com/acura/rl/

"While front-wheel drive is beneficial in smaller cars, most luxury car buyers seem to prefer the extra performance and handling that come from rear-wheel drive or all-wheel drive. This wasn't such a big issue during the RL's early years, but as newer competing models debuted with more power and more features, the Acura RL became increasingly outclassed."








When BMW AG Chairman Norbert Reithofer declared last week that his company would start making front-wheel-drive BMWs, there were screams from Stuttgart to Sacramento. BMW, after all, had built the Ultimate Driving Machine franchise on rear-wheel-drive cars. Now Mr. Reithofer appears to be chipping away at what made luxury cars so luxurious.

Auto enthusiasts—including many automotive designers and engineering executives, as well as wealthy car buyers—generally prefer cars to have the driving wheels in the back. It makes a difference in the way a car handles and steers. That difference is instantly recognizable but hard to define.



General Motors
Cadillac's XTS Platinum is one of several cars trying to sell high-end buyers on something considered unexciting: front-wheel drive.

A rear-drive car is "livelier, it's more direct-connected to the road," says Dave Leone, global vehicle chief engineer for General Motors Co.'s GM +0.35% rear-wheel-drive and performance cars, including the Cadillac CTS, Chevrolet Camaro and Chevrolet Corvette.

Mr. Reithofer's challenge is fueling the debate over what makes a luxury car special. It's a question that luxury-car buyers and luxury-car brands have been struggling with ever since volatile oil prices and environmental regulators began pressing car makers to evolve away from the "bigger is better" approach to marketing premium vehicles.

The advantages of front-wheel drive are mainly practical. Because the drive train, engine and steering gear are all packaged together under the hood, it's easier to give more space to passengers or cargo inside.

Front-wheel-drive cars are usually better in snow, because the engine weight is located over the driving wheels. And they typically get better fuel economy and thus emit less carbon dioxide than similar-sized rear-drive vehicles—although thanks to technology, today's rear-wheel-drive cars are closing the gap.

Still, front-wheel-drive cars suffer from being pegged as relatively unexciting to drive. Driven hard into a curve, they tend to plow sideways. They can also be susceptible to annoying "torque steer," which occurs when unequal amounts of power are sent to the left and right front wheels, causing the car to lurch in one direction or the other.





http://wholeearthblog.com/tag/rear-wheel-drive-cars/

LexFather

Mike the new model is still accord based and now FWD. Eawd will be an option later on.

tex2670

Right--I forgot. Thinking of TL.

tex2670

Even if I take all of the statements of the auto executives pumping up their RWD cars on face value--now it seems that we are only defining "luxury cars" as those that are large, heavy, powerful flagships.

This OP was about smaller, entry level $30,000 cars. Cars with 4 cylinder engines.

So--perhaps the take away is that, for brands marketing large flagship style "luxury cars", the only way to make them truly class leaders is to make them RWD/AWD. I would tend to agree with that. But, I still can't agree that any FWD car, by definition, cannot be called a luxury car.

Again--try telling someone who spends $53,000 on an A5 Cabriolet Prestige that they didn't buy a luxury car.

CDNROCKIES

I agree, though the A5 is more the exception than the rule.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

No one's supposed to know we have a few that came in for a Press Conference for our Automall's Acura dealer

LexFather

You posted pics of an Accord

Sh-Awd and now p-aws... Lol..

mmarshall

I checked a new one out at the D.C. auto show last week (but Acura wasn't doing test-drives at the show like some other manufacturers did). The new RL does seem to be more Accord-based, this time, than it was last time. Though the exterior size difference last time wasn't that great, you could easily tell the difference between the 2Gen RL and the Accord. The Accord, while well-built, was basically done to regular family-car standards, while the 2Gen RL was built like a tank....its heavy-gauge doors, for instance, opened and shut like bank-vaults, and its hardware was rock-solid.

However, you win on this one..........I'm going to agree with you more on the new 3Gen RL than I did on the last one. This new 3Gen model, a least from what I saw in the showroom, though still a fairly impressive luxury-grade car, clearly doesn't equal the last one in build-solidness. I could tell the difference the moment I got in. It seems (as you infer), yes, to be more or less a stretched/reworked Accord this time. A shame.

mmarshall

I don't agree with a number of the arguments made here that you cannot have a true FWD luxury car. Modern FWD luxury cars go back to the original 1966 Cadillac Eldorado (one of the then-most-expensive new American cars on the market, with one of the largest production V8s ever built) and the related Oldsmobile Toronado. Cadillac sold FWD luxury cars for decades (SLS, STS, DTS/DeVille, Eldorado), and continues on with the new XTS.

I do agree, however, that the suspension/tires used on many of today's "luxury" cars can hardly be called luxury, even with electronically adjusted/damped suspensions. A more accurate term, IMO, would be "Sport-oriented" or "Luxury-Sport." There are few, if any true luxury-suspensions/tires left.