View Poll Results: "There's no replacement for displacement."
Agree
26
56.52%
Disagree
9
19.57%
Neutral (or it depends)
10
21.74%
No opinion/no comment
1
2.17%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll
"There's no replacement for displacement." Agree? Disagree?
if you read and comprehend the original post, he even used m5 v10 compared to the new m5 v8 turbo. the s85 engine feels torqueless down low until about 4 rpm and it's a v10 motor. now if you are talking about a turbo charged 4 cylinder 4g63 turbo wiht an upgraded turbo, the lag when you are just driving normal is no different than the s85 engine. i've owned 4g63t motor and i drive s85 engine now. so im speaking on experience. if you want to read up more on the how torqueless the s85 engine feels, go to m5board and feel free to make an account and search.
smoothness and quietness? my leased 2013 328i has 255lb torque that comes in at 1250 rpm and will "feel" faster and quiet than a lot of v8 motors ive driven. everything varies.
smoothness and quietness? my leased 2013 328i has 255lb torque that comes in at 1250 rpm and will "feel" faster and quiet than a lot of v8 motors ive driven. everything varies.
and i guess your butt and my butt feel very differently. the new 328 i have driven and that thing doesn't feel that fast at all and in order to try to be fast, it is loud, compared to any of the v8 cars i have owned.
i have an account on m5board just fine and i had a e93 m3 so i know very well how these engines work. if we come down to normal driving then all these are just bs talk. the lag is there period.
and i guess your butt and my butt feel very differently. the new 328 i have driven and that thing doesn't feel that fast at all and in order to try to be fast, it is loud, compared to any of the v8 cars i have owned.
and i guess your butt and my butt feel very differently. the new 328 i have driven and that thing doesn't feel that fast at all and in order to try to be fast, it is loud, compared to any of the v8 cars i have owned.
. although the 328i doesn't have good engine sounds and cool noises, the torque on that car feels amazing when you are getting 35mpg. it also has one of the most powerful 4 cylinder motors right now. i suggest another test drive with the sport mode on
you are right, our butts feel differently. what are cars TO YOU that you driven and feels fast?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
I've had a couple of BMW loaner cars with that 2.0L N20 turbo engine and I've been quite impressed. I'm completely hung up on the smoothness and character of the Inline-6 engines so I don't think I'd ever buy one, but it's without a doubt the best 4-cylinder engine I've ever driven. It still sounds like a 4-banger, but it's sporty and engaging and has beautiful power delivery, and doesn't have bad NVH issues or make any nasty sounds. There's definitely a bit of turbo lag but very brief, and once it gets going it pulls nicely. In an X3 with the extra weight, drag, and AWD bogging it down, you can feel the engine start to wheeze as you're getting up to higher speeds (80+), but it's a perfectly good engine for the majority of people. It's definitely better than the outgoing N52 3.0L NA I-6 (230hp/200tq), but that engine was factory de-tuned and probably not the best comparison. A better comparison would be full-spec N52 or N53 with 255-260hp and 220-230tq. I test drove a 2011 BMW 528i F10 with the 240hp/230tq NA I-6, the last NA I-6 in a 5er, and it was a beautiful engine, much more engaging to drive and a whole lot better sounding than the N20. Throttle response is definitely sharper and more crisp on the NA Bimmer engines than any of the turbos, but most of the time I don't really notice or care.
Let me get this straight, you feel the E9x M3's V8 have worse throttle response then the E46 M3's Inline 6?
That's hardly a flat torque curve.
I'll see your 2-liter and raise you another liter.
BMW 3.0L N55 (twin-scroll single turbo), JB4 Stage 2.
http://www.burgertuning.com/N55_Stage2_Jb4.html
I'll see your 2-liter and raise you another liter.
BMW 3.0L N55 (twin-scroll single turbo), JB4 Stage 2.
http://www.burgertuning.com/N55_Stage2_Jb4.html
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I meant comparing to the E46 M3's motor, you think the E9X V8 feels worse?
no, it doesn't feel worse. maybe i was just hoping it was a drastic difference. but the e46 had instant throttle response and felt torque'r down low but the e9x is the stronger motor between the two.
But yes, there's no replacement. FI is simply increasing effective displacement. It's the amount of air.
n = PV/zRT
Increase pressure, increase the number of O2 molcules, increase power per combustion cycle.
Driver
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: CA
For power only, of course displacement helps. For overal car characteristic, displacement could hurt. Big engine is more weight and is more momentum to carry. Hence, some automakers prefer to use forced induction: you can achieve more power without disturbing the balance. So, yes, displacement is somewhat replacable but one still can't dodge this: speed costs money.
Driver
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: CA
On separate issue, maybe it is the age thing. I m getting old. I used to like the idea of muscle car: stuff the biggest engine possible in the chassis. Now i am looking more for balance. A couple last test drives confirm this. For the same chassis, i prefer the more balanced offering despite the reduction of power. For example, Audi A6 2.0t quattro vs 3.0t, jaguar xf 2.4t than 3.0t. They are more fun to flock around.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 723
Likes: 0
From: Pennsylvania
For power only, of course displacement helps. For overal car characteristic, displacement could hurt. Big engine is more weight and is more momentum to carry. Hence, some automakers prefer to use forced induction: you can achieve more power without disturbing the balance. So, yes, displacement is somewhat replacable but one still can't dodge this: speed costs money.