View Poll Results: "There's no replacement for displacement."
Agree
26
56.52%
Disagree
9
19.57%
Neutral (or it depends)
10
21.74%
No opinion/no comment
1
2.17%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll
"There's no replacement for displacement." Agree? Disagree?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 31
From: TN
Speaking from personal experience with the all aluminum, 5.7L LS1 in my 1998 Z28 Camaro/six speed combo, there is no replacement for displacement. Throttle response is instantaneous, and that motor just screamed all the way up to its redline at 6,000rpms. Granted it wasn't a real high revver like some Honda engines, but that thing pulled like a train from 2500 to the redline at 6k, even at speeds of 100+mph that thing just ripped. The car itself was kind of a tin can, with me in it it weighed 3480lbs, which is 500lbs lighter than a new Camaro.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,487
Likes: 386
From: ON/NY
IMO there is no replacement. However, right now turbos are the "in" thing and turbos deliver a very "premium" experience.
I would like to say that the Toyota/Lexus NA V6 are outstanding, but so are other V6's as well.
I would like to say that the Toyota/Lexus NA V6 are outstanding, but so are other V6's as well.
I do miss the crisp throttle response of nicely tuned NA engines vs. my current turbocharged Bimmers, but they're more than good enough unless you're super picky or tracking the car and demand super precise power delivery and control.
I once started a thread on one of the Bimmer forums lamenting that I missed the nice crisp throttle response of NA engines and most people were in denial and were adamant that you immediately get all 300 lb-ft of torque in the N54/N55 3.0L engines the absolute instant you mat the throttle. Uh, no, and any idiot can figure that out. From a 4th gear slow roll at around 2000rpm coasting for at least 10 seconds (turbo not spooled), it took a good 5 seconds to get to FULL boost and torque. Even an E90 328i loaner sedan with the factory de-tuned 3.0L NA engine had noticeably sharper throttle response than my 335i, which made me kinda miss NA engines which is what that thread was about. Total complete denial by some of those people.
I once started a thread on one of the Bimmer forums lamenting that I missed the nice crisp throttle response of NA engines and most people were in denial and were adamant that you immediately get all 300 lb-ft of torque in the N54/N55 3.0L engines the absolute instant you mat the throttle. Uh, no, and any idiot can figure that out. From a 4th gear slow roll at around 2000rpm coasting for at least 10 seconds (turbo not spooled), it took a good 5 seconds to get to FULL boost and torque. Even an E90 328i loaner sedan with the factory de-tuned 3.0L NA engine had noticeably sharper throttle response than my 335i, which made me kinda miss NA engines which is what that thread was about. Total complete denial by some of those people.
It take experience of driven and played with everything to understand. You can't replace the "feel" of displacement.
BS...my old Evo IX had an easily modified 500hp, launched to 60 seconds in under 4 seconds, and could wax with the V8 Vettes, Stangs, and Camaros. They're not maxed out, they're just limited due to what the consumer wants. Mitsu, in their infinite-wisdom, decided to go upmarket to Bimmer territory, where the Evos are not keen into a luxury market. Subby went weird by introducing a funky wagon first, then sedan later. The performance market in general is pretty dead except at the high end. So it isn't because of development (see the FQ Evos), it's because of the demand itself.
You missed my point................is ok.
it would help if you knew a thing or two about performance cars.
sti and evo being obsolete? lol. what part of the US is this happening in?
while you are talking about power delivery, lets talk about the final outcome. one turbo car can have lag, and another big n/a motor can have instant power, but both are running same times. you made your own variable up and put it in the mix.
sti and evo being obsolete? lol. what part of the US is this happening in?
while you are talking about power delivery, lets talk about the final outcome. one turbo car can have lag, and another big n/a motor can have instant power, but both are running same times. you made your own variable up and put it in the mix.
it would help if you knew a thing or two about performance cars.
sti and evo being obsolete? lol. what part of the US is this happening in?
while you are talking about power delivery, lets talk about the final outcome. one turbo car can have lag, and another big n/a motor can have instant power, but both are running same times. you made your own variable up and put it in the mix.
sti and evo being obsolete? lol. what part of the US is this happening in?
while you are talking about power delivery, lets talk about the final outcome. one turbo car can have lag, and another big n/a motor can have instant power, but both are running same times. you made your own variable up and put it in the mix.
Sure if you want to compare apple to orange, go ahead.
I am done here, no more post from me.
lol, last thing im worrying about is turbo lag when the car in goes 10 secs in the quarter mile. just look up 600hp evos.
turbos can make up for displacement but if you start modifying a big displacement motor, you will of course have more power
turbos can make up for displacement but if you start modifying a big displacement motor, you will of course have more power
and if power is the ONLY thing between turbo and displacement, with smoothness and quietness out of the window, i guess i don't need to go any further
Last edited by rominl; Jan 13, 2013 at 12:18 AM.
Driver
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: CA
This thread is worthless without visual aids
My 2003 Mitsubishi Evo, tuned moderately not for extreme power (dyno queen), but for fun drivable street setting. Focus on usable power (look at the flat torque 4000-6000rpm).
This graph show power at the wheel, take 20-25% drivetrain loss for crank hp.
Blue: 91 octane
Purple: 91 octane+alcohol injection
Can make some more with 110 octane map
The term "there is no replacement for displacement" is not that spot on. I believe more in "speed costs money, how much do yo want to spent?"
My 2003 Mitsubishi Evo, tuned moderately not for extreme power (dyno queen), but for fun drivable street setting. Focus on usable power (look at the flat torque 4000-6000rpm).
This graph show power at the wheel, take 20-25% drivetrain loss for crank hp.
Blue: 91 octane
Purple: 91 octane+alcohol injection
Can make some more with 110 octane map
The term "there is no replacement for displacement" is not that spot on. I believe more in "speed costs money, how much do yo want to spent?"
smoothness and quietness? my leased 2013 328i has 255lb torque that comes in at 1250 rpm and will "feel" faster and quiet than a lot of v8 motors ive driven. everything varies.
Last edited by ISFPOWER; Jan 13, 2013 at 12:38 AM.
Driver
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: CA
not much lag with a combination of 2.3/2.4 stroker and GT307R turbo on 4G63 . for daily driving it is more livable to have a flatter torque band.
smoothness and quietness for daily driving? from suave to sportier, your local lexus dealer will be more than happy to assist you.
. for daily driving it is more livable to have a flatter torque band.smoothness and quietness for daily driving? from suave to sportier, your local lexus dealer will be more than happy to assist you.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
This thread is worthless without visual aids
My 2003 Mitsubishi Evo, tuned moderately not for extreme power (dyno queen), but for fun drivable street setting. Focus on usable power (look at the flat torque 4000-6000rpm).
This graph show power at the wheel, take 20-25% drivetrain loss for crank hp.
Blue: 91 octane
Purple: 91 octane+alcohol injection
Can make some more with 110 octane map
The term "there is no replacement for displacement" is not that spot on. I believe more in "speed costs money, how much do yo want to spent?"
My 2003 Mitsubishi Evo, tuned moderately not for extreme power (dyno queen), but for fun drivable street setting. Focus on usable power (look at the flat torque 4000-6000rpm).
This graph show power at the wheel, take 20-25% drivetrain loss for crank hp.
Blue: 91 octane
Purple: 91 octane+alcohol injection
Can make some more with 110 octane map
The term "there is no replacement for displacement" is not that spot on. I believe more in "speed costs money, how much do yo want to spent?"
I'll see your 2-liter and raise you another liter.
BMW 3.0L N55 (twin-scroll single turbo), JB4 Stage 2.
http://www.burgertuning.com/N55_Stage2_Jb4.html
