Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

BTW,the '13 ES has a $199 body side molding option.
A couple of members with '13 ES's have the option and posted a pic.

rkyat

once again, an awesome tthorough review Mike. I'm sure Lexus will do well with ES, regardless of any little issues.

i will say i was looking forward to one of those reviews of cars most us regular folk have no chance of buying anytime soon.

mmarshall

Thanks. Have you owned one?

Yes, I know it's real wood. On the specific trim-level I had, though, with the Ivory-leather inside, it appeared, IMO, to be somewhat over-polished and didn't really look like real wood..it needd a more matte-appearance.

So your loaners weren't groaners? Good...I'm glad. The one I first reviewed in 2007 wasn't exactly as bad as, say, a 1984 Pontiac Fiero in the rattle-department, but did have some noticeable dash-creaks. That turned out, BTW, to be a common customer-complaint in early-production models.

I have seen a number of 5Gen models with the mouldings. Perhaps they were a dealer-installed accessory.


I've heard that argument a number times, but, friend, with no offense to you, I just disagree. Automakers will come up with the darnest excuses sometimes to try and justify nickel-and-diming......including "styling improvements". I've seen it many times before....and I'm sure we'll see it again.

You should hear, for example, the excuses that Toyota, Saturn, and Nissan came up for the reasons they used the center-stack speedometer/gauges on the Echo/Yaris, Ion, and Quest.



The Verano, except for some Ecotec 4-cylinder engine noise, seems to be the quietest of the bunch in wind/road noise, though, oddly, being the smallest, cheapest Buick, and the one with the least-room for added sound insulation. But Buick engineers, with that car, were determined to build a compact sedan with as low a road/wind-noise level as possible. The larger LaCrosse and Enclave, though, have quieter-running V6 engines as RPMs build....and a somewhat smoother ride over bumps than the Verano's 45-series tires. The Regal has essentially the same drivetrains as the Verano, but is more sport-oriented, and wasn't necessarily designed to be whisper-quiet.

The ES, in general, of course, is not known for being a young person's car, but a number of younger people (especially here on CL) do drive one or are interested in one..


Thanks. And I'm also looking forward to the D.C. Auto Show after the holidays. I usually get free show-passes, and spend several days there....if my legs/back and feet hold out

mmarshall

Yes, I know some cars still have the mouldings as a dealer-installed or factory-option, but I still think it is an insult to charge the customer almost $200 for something that can easily be applied on the assembly-line for a couple of bucks production-cost at most. Automakers simply found that they could make more profits doing that. Of course, some people simply don't care if the side of their car looks like it was peppered with a ball-pein hammer....I'm one of those who do care.

But, of course, not even the mouldings can prevent all dings...because not all door-edges, when they are swing-open, are shaped the same...and not all mouldings are shaped the same .That's why, when possible, I often just park a short distance away and walk.

pbm317

These stand alone review are a bit tough to follow. I think it could be better explained if you had more references. What are you making all these judgments and comparisons to, other than some seemingly personal standard that doesn't seem to be met by any car on the road anymore. Are there specific vehicles/competitors that provide a better overall package?

And now you're stretching the vehicle review to the sales website? That seems to be a stretch and hard to fault a vehicle on something the vehicle engineering team has zero control over.

mmarshall

Thanks. Yes, ES sales have always been good. Like the Camry, it has a strong and loyal owner-base. Several of my own friends/colleagues own an ES.


This one should tickle your fancy. Did you check out the Jag XKR Convertible (100K+) Holiday-review I did a few years ago? Driving that car was like dating a supermodel....even with an empty seat next to you.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...nvertible.html

mmarshall

Well, most of the time, I don't have any choice but to do stand-alone reviews....unless a relatively unusual Drive-a-Thon comes to the area where the manufacturer itself provides competing models to all drive at once (1SICK sometimes does his reviews that way). I know a lot of salespeple in the buisness, and often have access to new vehicles....and I also shop fairly often with those interested in new vehicles. But I don't work for (or write for) auto-magazines where regular comparison-tests betwen vehicles of the same class are scheduled, arranged, and paid for at magazine and/or automaker-expense. I simply review vehicles by CL-member request, or, occasionally, as with the Holiday Reviews, on something that might be of interest to CL as a whole. I also do something you won't always find in magazines.....a detailed explanation/descripton of the latest car from stem to stern and a previous history/overview. My reviews, unlike those of some other sources and magazines, don't test a car to its track-limits....the average driver doesn't drive that way, and I don't review a car that way. My reviews, as I do them on public roads myself, try to give more of an impression of what the vehicle is like in typical daily-driving, whre you will usually spend most of your time.


Of course, my type of review may not be what you are looking for (they are not necessarily for everyone)...and there are literally thousands of other reviews, of all types, out there on the Internet as alternatives.

No, I wasn't trying to blame the car for that. But there's a reason why I listed it in the MINUSES the way I did. The new Lexus website is not the easiest one to navigate that the company has ever come out with.....even the salespersons admit that. So, for the average Lexus-shopper today using the official web-site (and many people, today do consult the site for various reasons before buying)...it is a potential negative. But you'll notice I listed it at the bottom of the MINUSES list...as you note, it is not a huge factor.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i bet the vast majority of luxury cars are leased. so people are just renting them, not buying. once they come out of one lease, they have to go into another anyway unless something significant has changed for them. the population is growing so sales/leases are too, and of course low interest rates helps. i think a lot of people have also just said screw it, the economy may suck, but i'm going to drive a nice car while i can.

about the 'many others' the economy is doing well for, sure there's always people doing well, but the VAST majority of americans have taken a hit in income, savings, and seen many costs rise dramatically in recent years, especially healthcare, education, food, and energy.

the es is a good value, and lexus has walked the line well of reducing costs as much as they can in mostly invisible ways, while upgrading the platform, interior and overal aesthetics significantly.

agreed!

LexFather

And people have always leased cars in ANY economy, good or bad and in many cases leases are a better financial decision than purchasing. The fact of the matter is luxury car sales are up, PERIOD.

Case in point the ES is no longer a low 30k entry level car, it starts at 37k is around 50k loaded and is selling better than ever with hardly any incentives right now.

This is not the place for personal interpretations on the economy when others disagree. I think we all could agree 4 years ago the economy tanked. It is CLEAR it has rebounded and things are picking up and this is further evidenced by the sales of the luxury market, in particular cars. The fact of the matter is it is still a 40k luxruy car with taxs, tag, title. $40,000. If Lexus say pulled an Acura and dropped the TSX for the iLX like they are doing which starts at 25k, then MMarshall would have a point. This is not the case, the price of the ES has moved up appropriately and the MARKET has RESPONDED.

Lexus didn't panic and throw everything they worked for out the window or blame anyone for the economy nor the German brands. They kept forward with their plans to move upmarket and expand portfolios downmarket as well. The market as decided they still want luxury goods. The sales of luxury goods are exploding.

Here is an article I read from last year...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/04/bu...ngly.html?_r=0

Worldwide it is more of the same

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/luxury...120000556.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...les-surge.html

There are too many believing in the doom and gloom and I refuse to believe it nor spread what I see as misinformation.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Yes exactly

mmarshall

In this area (D.C.) even with its very high-income level compared to most of the rest of the country (several local counties rank in the nation's top 10), leasing is still what keeps a lot of the luxury-car buisness going.

Some of that, of course, is general price-inflation. Some is simply government-required equipment on new vehicles or gadgets that many customers demand.

True, we have a debate forum for that, but the economy often decides car-sales.

This is actually a very strange move on Acura's part...selling those two cars out of the same showrooms. The ILX and TSX have got to be having at least some some sales-overlap....though the TSX, of course, has the nice Sportwagon that the ILX lacks.


What matters, though, is not necessarily list-prices, but what the dealer actually wants (in a discount or mark-up) and what the factory is willing to rebate (if any). The exact same car rarely sells for the same price at two different dealerships at random.....unless those two dealerships are in the same state (for sales-taxes) and you havea list-price-deal syatem like Scion or the way saturn used to do it.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Yes they look outdated, but quality do not age

That is why I still own my SC430, it is the most expensive looking car at this price.

mmarshall

At 61K to start, the 2Gen SC430 was expensive in a lot more than just looks. It also has a superbly well-paneled wood dash, though the wood's color was a little ligth for my tastes.

amphipri0n

Thanks for the thorough review, it's fun/interesting to hear different perspectives and takeaways on this car. One thing I'm happy you mentioned is the steering wheel feel. I was really impressed by it on my first drive in the '13 ES, it literally put a smile on my face. Definitely "super-slick" and solid without feeling heavy. I love the fact that the one thing your hands are in constant contact with as a driver(hopefully) is so well executed.

mmarshall

Glad I was able to help.


Yes, Lexus typically does polished-wood steering wheels better than virtually any other mass-produced auto manufacturer, though I haven't had a chance to sample the latest Rolls-Royce, Bentley, or Maybach wheel in comparison.