Motortrend: 2012 Buick LaCrosse vs. 2012 Hyundai Azera vs. 2013 Lexus ES 350
11-09-12, 05:28 PM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
There is no way the Genesis competes with the ES350. Like I said in an earlier post, the ES competes head on with the XTS and MKZ.
11-09-12, 06:56 PM
#47
Lexus Champion
The Genesis competes with the Chrysler 300, Dodge Charger, and to a lesser extent the Cadillac CTS.
11-09-12, 08:04 PM
#49
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The article was strange.
However,MT is a rag when an article isn't too pleasing for a ES but a great magazine when it reviewed the new GS?
"There should be outrage and backlash against MT for such appalling lies and contradictions"
The article is how the writers felt about the ES.As bitkahuna posted, ES sales won't suffer because of it.
I've always found MT to be the worst auto magazine of the popular 4 or 5.Especially when it comes to their choices of the car or truck of the year.
However,MT is a rag when an article isn't too pleasing for a ES but a great magazine when it reviewed the new GS?
"There should be outrage and backlash against MT for such appalling lies and contradictions"
The article is how the writers felt about the ES.As bitkahuna posted, ES sales won't suffer because of it.
I've always found MT to be the worst auto magazine of the popular 4 or 5.Especially when it comes to their choices of the car or truck of the year.
This is not about sales or even how the writers feel. This goes deeper than that. Months ago an enthusiast site discovered a big corruption/conspiracy among auto journalists in terms of how they review certain brands. The truth came out that certain brands bribe journalists and reviews with fancy hotels and restaurants, while brands that don't bribe are reviewed harshly and unfairly. For the most part, the reason why Toyota/Lexus, and even sometimes Honda and Nissan suffer in comparison tests is because their vehicles are reviewed harshly or unfairly, due to a strong bias against then from journalists, since they don't engage in the fancy hotel/restaurant bribing that other brands do. Yes in some reviews the Japanese do well, but more often they do poorly in reviews, or least have done poorly for years. Then we look at what brands consistently have done very well in reviews for several years, and no surprise, but it is German brands, Hyundai/Kia, and some American brands.
So my original point remains. Either Hyundai gave a nice cut of revenue to the writers/MT, or, Hyundai bribed them with fancy hotels and restaurants.
Factually, the ES beat the Azera in almost every category. Even if the writers subjectively felt that the Azera was somehow better, the ES at least should have been ranked 2nd and not last, based on all the FACTUAL data that was obtained in the review.
There is absolutely ZERO sense in awarding the ES last place, when factually, it was pretty much 1st in every category.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 11-09-12 at 08:07 PM.
11-09-12, 08:14 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
The inside, I really like it. The base models are not as good as the higher end models but I really like the fully loaded models.
The real issue I have is that MT should be comparing Hyundai and Buick to Toyota and the Avalon and not Lexus or ES. Its a black mark to Lexus to be compared to Buick and Hyundai.
11-09-12, 11:26 PM
#51
The ES isn't "top shelf" its a VERY NICE FWD family car priced at about the top of the mark of what somebody would pay for such a car.
11-09-12, 11:40 PM
#52
Like it or not, people cross shop Buick, Toyota, Lexus, Acura, Nissan, Hyundia, Mazda, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, etc. Sometimes people who can afford a $40,000 ES and look at one end up buying a $25,000 Ford Fusion or whatever because they don't think they're really buying $15,000 more worth of car.
The ES isn't "top shelf" its a VERY NICE FWD family car priced at about the top of the mark of what somebody would pay for such a car.
The ES isn't "top shelf" its a VERY NICE FWD family car priced at about the top of the mark of what somebody would pay for such a car.
11-09-12, 11:44 PM
#53
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11-09-12, 11:59 PM
#54
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there's a mistake in the article there. the BASE price of the ES is $36,995 but if you want one with nav (as shown in the article) it's at least $42700 (i checked on lexus.com) so there's a near $6k difference in price.
11-10-12, 12:04 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
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they acknowledge that technically the es350 is (by a hair) the quietest, but i think it's that they (and most people) are used to lexus vehicles being a 'wow' quieter than others. the reality is, the competition has caught up, and lexus is now struggling with cost/weight/economy trade-offs to keep the car much quieter than anything else.
not knocking the new ES - it's wonderful! but it's also pricey when compared like in the article. the real problem is building the entry lux model in japan makes it too expensive.
definitely quickest in a straight line by far, but f/e only a bit better than azera.
that's not what the article says. they give the azera the win because it's close enough to the others but a lot cheaper. the es comes in behind the buick because they basically like how the buick drives better in environment that no one would actually drive it in, which is kinda lame...
in an 'enthusiast' magazine, they just didn't appreciate the lexus refinement, imo. i think the es350 is a significantly nicer vehicle than both the hyundai and the buick.
oh well, as i said, it won't hurt sales.
not knocking the new ES - it's wonderful! but it's also pricey when compared like in the article. the real problem is building the entry lux model in japan makes it too expensive.
quickest and best fuel economy by far. 
So basically its better than the other cars in just about every test here, yet comes in last because it lost to its predecessor? Not the cars in this test, its predecessor.
in an 'enthusiast' magazine, they just didn't appreciate the lexus refinement, imo. i think the es350 is a significantly nicer vehicle than both the hyundai and the buick.
oh well, as i said, it won't hurt sales.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 11-10-12 at 12:08 AM.
11-10-12, 06:12 AM
#56
If you cant appreciate differences between Lexus and Hyundai, Toyota has an Avalon for you.
11-10-12, 06:25 AM
#57
Lexus Champion
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They preferred a couple of other cars over the ES (I disagree too. I've had 2 of them) but MT has never given the ES350 very positive reviews. Not a big deal IMO.
11-13-12, 08:21 AM
#58
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[QUOTE=spwolf;7591372]i dont think there is an problem with ES350 price, do you? Are you supposed to get Lexus at the price of Hyundai?..
QUOTE]
Yes, with a Genesis, which though a tad outdated now is much more Lexusy-ritzy inside/out than the Azera, and virtually the same price as a 350, a nice big family sedan for $40k. The Azera I test drove before I bought my ES was very nice, and only $33k. Was very tempted but it was it's first year. It truly is the Avalon of Hyundai.
I love my ES, but I do miss the no sunroof option in the Azera, I'd much rather have the extra headroom in the ES.
I'll never subscribe to M & T for sure.
QUOTE]
Yes, with a Genesis, which though a tad outdated now is much more Lexusy-ritzy inside/out than the Azera, and virtually the same price as a 350, a nice big family sedan for $40k. The Azera I test drove before I bought my ES was very nice, and only $33k. Was very tempted but it was it's first year. It truly is the Avalon of Hyundai.
I love my ES, but I do miss the no sunroof option in the Azera, I'd much rather have the extra headroom in the ES.
I'll never subscribe to M & T for sure.
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