Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

$12.80 for my son's '13 Elantra with 3100 miles.

spwolf

yep....

i doubt it will hurt their sales a lot... people dont care about a lot these days.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Will fallout from Hyundai and Kia's MPG issues hurt resale values?

First came Hyundai's and Kia's corporate admission of guilt about overstating fuel economy numbers, then the recompense, then the lawsuits. Now begins the process of gnawing on every one of the consequences. In case you've only just returned from the International Space Station, Hyundai and Kia have admitted that about a third of the cars they have sold over the past three years have advertised inflated EPA fuel mileage numbers. For instance, the highway mpg number for the 2013 Hyundai Accent isn't 40 mpg anymore, it's either 37 or 38 miles per gallon. The combined mpg for the Kia Soul can take a four mpg hit depending on the trim level.

A piece in USA Today questions how the revelation will affect resale values for the Korean automakers, and the majority of opinions seems to be "not much." An analyst at Kelley Blue Book suggests there could be a short-term penalty, but that the impact might be mostly emotional, and industry watchers at the Institute for Crisis Management and ALG believe that Americans move on pretty quickly and the "absolute dollar" impact will be minimal.

When Consumer Reports compared advertised highway mileage to actual mileage it received, it found discrepancies from 11 mpg more (for the Volkswagen Passat TDI) to one mpg less (for the Hyundai Elantra, coincidentally), and Hyundai and Kia each had three vehicles that were spot on, including the Sonata Hybrid that achieved the company's advertised 40 mpg. Paradoxically, as consumers focus even more on EPA ratings and the government agency's testing protocols have been revised in an attempt to improve accuracy, people seem to be putting even more stock in the phrase "your mileage may vary." So too might your resale values, but it probably won't be because of this latest boondoggle.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/06/w...-resale-value/

ramford

It is simply a form of advertisement and a mere business plan. The owners of some Hyundai Motors and Kia designs from the years 2011-2013 will soon be getting just a little payback. The two Korean car manufacturers and partners have copped to over-estimating fuel economy ratings to the EPA. For that, the automakers have agreed to pay impacted owners.

GS69

Hyundai Has Been Busted Over Performance Claims Before

It was revealed Friday that Hyundai Motor and its Kia Motors affiliate had overstated mpg ratings on 900,000 vehicles.

And it was not the 1st time Hyundai has been caught in its own false claims.

In 2002, Hyundai admitted that it had overstated horsepower ratings on 1.3 million vehicles. At the time Hyundai said it would make compensation payments of between $76 million and $127 million, while plaintiffs' lawyers projected the actual payout would be closer to $30 million.

Coincidence?

Consider this: Back in the 1990s, before Hyundai had a reputation for quality, it was selling a lot fewer vehicles, many of which were seen as wheezy donkeys. So the automaker banked on horsepower.

Hyundai vehicles suddenly found buckets of power in its wee engines, gaining 5 or 10 hp that hadn't existed before. The engines jumped to the head of their competitive classes. Horsepower became a key refrain in Hyundai advertising.

Then came the hammer. The EPA busted Hyundai for overstating horsepower on 6 vehicles spanning up to 11 model years. Ratings on some 6-cylinder models were off by as much as 20 hp. Hyundai claimed the too-high numbers stemmed from improper testing procedures.

So, back to 2012.

Hyundai's recent fuel economy numbers have been questioned by journalists who tested their vehicles, including this author. The mileage shortfalls were mentioned in articles, but writers typically attributed the shortfall to their own leaden feet rather than the cars.

When I tested an Elantra, which boasted 29/40 mpg ratings, I eked out 25.2 mpg in a combined driving cycle. When I tested an Accent, with a 30/40 mpg claim, I got just 26 mpg.

I asked Hyundai executives about the discrepancy. They said that perhaps my test vehicles had bad engine-management settings, too-low tire pressure or something to that effect.

I pursued my query further, asking whether it is possible to game the EPA testing system, to create engine software settings to perfectly match the EPA driving cycle to obtain maximum fuel-efficiency scores.

Of course, when you were not driving exactly to that measurement, fuel economy would likely fall off, I posited. Hyundai's response: It was no different from anyone else in the fuel economy competition.

Now that the EPA has made the shortfall official, Hyundai is claiming an error in -- you guessed it -- testing methods in South Korea.

That an automaker with 2 distinct brands could mistakenly test 13 model lines, with several chief engineers running the programs, over a period of years seems like a reach.

But that's Hyundai's story, and Hyundai's sticking to it. Again.

rkyat

I usually get 50% less than advertised mpg anyway in my genesis.... but then again im pretty much always in boost lol.

spwolf

thats normal though and not an problem...

Problem is if Yaris thats rated 34 MPG gets better real life mileage than 40 MPG Accent under same testing (driver, roads, etc).

What started all of these complaints is their advertising of 40 MPG cars and people moving from their 34 MPG cars and getting less MPG, not more... something seen in almost every comparo test.

Very similar goes to Ford ecoboost and hybrids... i wonder what will happen there. Fusion 1.6l Ecoboost had best on paper mpg but got the worst result in some of the latest direct comparos. Well Malibu was worse.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

ah. gold. .

GS69

Hyundai, Kia Face $775 Million Suit Over Mileage Claims

Hyundai Motor America and Kia Motors America have been hit with a 2nd U.S. civil suit seeking class-action status after the companies admitted to making bogus fuel-economy claims.

The latest was Tuesday in U.S. Central District Court in Los Angeles on behalf of 23 plaintiffs. It seeks $775 million in compensation for owners who say resale values have been damaged by the companies’ inflated fuel-economy figures.

The suit states that the proposed debit-card payouts to purchasers of nearly 900,000 Hyundai and Kia vehicles doesn’t make up for the decreased value of those vehicles.

“Plaintiffs and the Class have been damaged by Hyundai’s and Kia’s misrepresentations, concealment, and non-disclosure of the incorrect fuel economy numbers, because they were misled into purchasing Hyundais and Kias of a quality different than they were promised, and paying higher fuel costs they would not otherwise have paid,” the suit says.

Hyundai and Kia’s apologies on Nov. 2 were prompted by a U.S. EPA investigation that found discrepancies between company fuel-economy test results and the agency’s own results. As a result, the companies lowered the fuel-economy ratings for the affected vehicles. On most of them, the ratings fell by 1-2 mpg.

The automakers said the 900,000 vehicles reflected about 35% of their combined sales of 2011-13 models through Oct. 31.

The Los Angeles suit claims Hyundai and Kia violated unfair competition and consumer legal remedies laws, and engaged in fraud, false advertising, breach of warranty, negligent misrepresentation and “unjust enrichment.”

Citing a formula that accounts for all vehicles and miles driven over the likely economic life of the car, the suit claims that vehicle owners should be paid $775 million for their inconvenience.

The actual damages sought are $907 million, but that does not account for the present value of future damages. As a result, a lower dollar value is being sought.

A U.S. suit filed Sunday in Ohio on behalf of 3 named plaintiffs sought unspecified monetary damages. That complaint also asks that consumers who bought Hyundai or Kia vehicles with the inflated mileage figures be allowed to back out of their purchase or lease agreements.

The Los Angeles suit was filed by prominent class-action firm Hagens Berman of Seattle. Hagens Berman also is 1 of the lead firms suing Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., alleging unintended acceleration of its vehicles.

“We think Hyundai’s program falls well short of making this right for consumers,” said plaintiff attorney Rob Carey, in a statement. “Making owners bring their cars in for an odometer check and forcing them to reapply every year for monies due today are enacted purely to shirk financial responsibility.”

A Hyundai spokesman said the automaker does not comment on ongoing litigation.

Hyundai and Kia officials have said the faulty claims resulted from "procedural errors" in internal fuel-economy testing.

Under Hyundai's and Kia's proposed remedy, owners with mislabeled vehicles will bring them to dealerships for odometer checks. Dealers will forward the readings to the automaker, which will reimburse owners with debit cards for the extra gasoline they purchased.

gengar

Hahaha, I didn't catch that Hyundai actually wants owners to drive to dealers every year for an annual odometer reading and the mpg overstatement refund will actually be issued based on that figure. That's so absurd.

Hyundai needs to just own up to their cheating and start compensating customers now with a current net present value of the damages. I wouldn't mind seeing some owners try to force a buyback, and I would also like to see punitive damages pursued in court. It's an untenable position to be marketing a product where the consumer is expected to pay up front in whole for future cash flows (i.e., pay more now for gas savings later), but then when we find out the manufacturer is full of it, all of a sudden the manufacturer wants to pay actual damages out over time.

I'm not a fan of this lawsuit-happy country, but as I mentioned before, in this case I really do hope punitive damages are pursued.

LexFather

I have to say with Sandy and the election they chose the PERFECT time to drop this. I haven't heard a peep on the news or from anyone.

TRDFantasy

Well, well, well ... great to see that justice still exists in America, and that karma has definitely come around to Hyundai.

This is overdue, and the EPA should have done this a long time ago.

Exactly! Here at CL many of us knew this for years! How did Hyundai "magically" get big fuel economy increases starting from several years ago, when their engines and transmissions had barely changed!? It was all fluff! Their HP numbers right now are still fluff. Their boasts about how good their quality is, also fluff. Their cars are made of paper thin sheet metal, with super cheap interior parts, and the interiors themselves looking like a space ship, not a car. Their cars are under-engineered, and won't last the test of time quality-wise in the long term.

What matters is that many buyers now will feel burned, Hyundai/Kia resale values will now drop, and the fragile loyalty rates for the company will drop. These burned buyers won't be returning to the company any time soon, if at all for future purchases.

With large worker strikes always a potential risk in South Korea, a Korean currency that is slowly appreciating, falling market share and sales here in the US, this fuel economy fiasco, fierce competition from all sides including the strength of a nation with Toyota, and Hyundai has a lot to worry about in the future.

Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with you there. Hyundai/Kia deserve zero credit here. There is nothing great about this, other than justice being brought forth upon them. This was not a voluntary admission of guilt. The EPA literally FORCED the apology out of the mouths of Hyundai executives. They should not be commended for anything.

Who should be commended is the EPA for FINALLY doing the right thing and exposing this huge fraud/cheat/fiasco or whatever you want to call it.

I think you spoke too soon there, as there are already several huge class-action lawsuits that have been filed. People are taking Hyundai to court HARD, and I hope the US government further involves itself in this case as well.

I concur with this motion. To all the CL regulars and veterans who have praised Hyundai/Kia over the past few years for the "great" improvements they've made in fuel economy and performance, what do you have to say for yourselves now? Do you still praise such a fraudulent and ruthless corporation?

You must love Korean thinking and Hyundai corporate philosophy then.

Here is a quote from Stephen Hawking, you may have heard of him:

"We are in danger of destroying ourselves by our greed and stupidity. We cannot remain looking inwards at ourselves on a small and increasingly polluted and overcrowded planet."

Yes this will hurt them. Many buyers will be in for a shock next year when they see many Hyundai/Kia models "magically" drop in the EPA ratings, and current owners will feel very burned as well.

This is just the beginning, wait and see. It will become a bigger story when the masses all notice the EPA drops for Hyundai/Kia models next year.

The problem gets bigger. Their lineups are now redesigned, so the lineups will now start to age, while the competition has fierce redesigns coming to their models.

This is what some of us foresaw and called a long time ago. Big trouble for Hyundai.

You read my mind exactly!

There's a lot of things that are absurd about Hyundai. Their corporate philosophy, and their executives' line of thinking, which seems devoid of any soul or humanity. Off topic, but quite similar in fact to another company from their homeland, Samsung.

The full might of the US justice hammer must be applied in this case.

I'd love to see Hyundai brought before a Congressional committee, although that is doubtful.

pman6

isn't the mpg on the window sticker supposed to be based on EPA numbers ?

gengar

No, the EPA tests very few new models each year. The vast majority of models are tested in-house by their manufacturers using EPA specifications. The manufacturer numbers are then reported on the sticker without any EPA verification.

That's why I strongly believe punitive damages are appropriate in this case, because Hyundai and Kia certainly appear to have intentionally overstated mpg and taken advantage of the system to violate governmental and public trust.

TRDFantasy

This is a case where the "litigation nation" of the US is absolutely warranted, and damages must be severe, especially as Hyundai was caught 10 years ago intentionally overstating HP ratings with marketing fluff. The fact that Hyundai is a repeat offender of intentionally overstating specs should weigh heavily in terms of punitive damages.