Toyota to OverHaul Engines
#76
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A few MPG north or south on an engine that is already efficient isn't going to matter very much. And even a significant difference between two engines that are already efficient (say 40mpg petrol vs 60mph diesel/hybrid) isn't as much of a difference as 5mpg petrol vs 10mpg diesel in a truck.
So once again, this is why it doesn't make sense to introduce hybrid and other complex technologies to budget cars that are already efficient. It just makes them more expensive, and costs more to maintain and repair. When you're spending $50 on gas a week with a CamCordTima that's cheap to begin with and will run for 10 years with minimal repair costs, it makes zero sense to pay thousands upfront and spend more on maintenance just to spend $10 less on gas each week. Unless you're putting extraordinary amount of miles on the car, and even then increased maintenance might offset all the fuel saving.
Performance hybrids such as the GS450h are surely nice, but I'd much rather get GS with 3.5 TT V6 over the hybrid.
So once again, this is why it doesn't make sense to introduce hybrid and other complex technologies to budget cars that are already efficient. It just makes them more expensive, and costs more to maintain and repair. When you're spending $50 on gas a week with a CamCordTima that's cheap to begin with and will run for 10 years with minimal repair costs, it makes zero sense to pay thousands upfront and spend more on maintenance just to spend $10 less on gas each week. Unless you're putting extraordinary amount of miles on the car, and even then increased maintenance might offset all the fuel saving.
Performance hybrids such as the GS450h are surely nice, but I'd much rather get GS with 3.5 TT V6 over the hybrid.
#77
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Getting to engines, Lexus used to be at the lead to me with BMW with engines but that is no longer the case. While perfectly adequate they are not class leading except in maybe reliability. I can't wait to see the new powerplants and what they offer. They cannot go another 5 years to me with the same engines.
#79
I'd be interested to see a 4 cylinder turbo hybrid. Could be very fun and efficient.
#80
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right now, MSRP difference is $3.5k, and with Hybrid you get more equipment and features like dual zone AC, acusting winshield, smart entry, nicer interior.
Plus more powerful and luxurious engine that gets 10 MPG more.
Back when you were shopping, Hybrid was just released, now they sell plenty per month.
Mazda6 still gets a lot lesser MPG than Camry hybrid or the Prius.
In fact, here is the shocker - MotorTrend tested Mazda6 vs Camry 2.5l, and Camry got better mpg. So much for that eh?
Plus more powerful and luxurious engine that gets 10 MPG more.
Back when you were shopping, Hybrid was just released, now they sell plenty per month.
Mazda6 still gets a lot lesser MPG than Camry hybrid or the Prius.
In fact, here is the shocker - MotorTrend tested Mazda6 vs Camry 2.5l, and Camry got better mpg. So much for that eh?
And the fuel saving generally degrades as you start putting the mileage into it. So generally with the Camry Hybrid your losing money.
If you want reliability/A-B transportation/comfort get the regular Camry. If you want luxury/performance/fun get the Camry V6
No future for the Camry Hybrid in my book, besides the bulk of Hybrid sales go to governments and fleet agencies..
Last edited by yowps3; 10-14-13 at 04:08 PM.
#81
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That's been my opinion of the 2GR-FSE for awhile now. It was certainly class-leading when it came out, but yes it's been surpassed everywhere except for reliability. I know Lexus can, and should, do better. 11.8:1 compression is a little low these days. How bout 13 or 14 and maybe at least 320hp and some more torque? Would pickup an MPG or two in the process also. Make people forget all about these turbo engines these days.
I've always felt that 306HP was quite an understatement for the 2GR-FSE considering how much and how flat the torque curve is..
Last edited by yowps3; 10-14-13 at 04:13 PM.
#83
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I mean look at how flat that torque is. It's approaching 7000rpm and still has near peak torque levels! Crazy! This thing should be outputting way more than 306HP!
Last edited by yowps3; 10-14-13 at 05:16 PM.
#84
Gearing and weight have a lot to do with it. The Chevy Impala (the 2013 one) has more power on paper than the Avalon and Camry, but unless you floor the thing, it feels so sluggish and lethargic. Where as, the Camry and Avalon in normal driving just feels spirited. Having power is great if you can control it. The W body Impala and the Chrysler Minivans have some of the worst torque steer. They have lots of power but don't put it down on the pavement well.
#85
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Just a few weeks ago, we found ourselves mightily impressed with the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, which uses a new two-motor hybrid system that allows it to be rated at 50 mpg city. Toyota, however, says that Honda may have brought its A-game, but it will be no match for the next generation hybrid technology coming from its Japanese rival.
Speaking with us last week at a press event in Japan, Toyota managing officer Satoshi Ogiso, the “father of the Prius,” said that he’s had a lot of time studying Honda’s two-motor system and that the next Toyota system will be better.
“We’ve looked very closely at it,” he said. “We’re not worried.” He didn’t elaborate too much but to say that Toyota was well into development of its next system and would stick closely to the parallel hybrid system currently used by his company as well as Ford.
On the other hand, Honda’s two-motor system uses a clutch pack to modulate between the engine and electric motor system, essentially using the motors in place of a traditional transmission. In the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, it allows the somewhat heavy car to achieve a 50 mpg city/45 mpg highway fuel economy rating and uses a lithium-ion battery pack.
Toyota has continued to use a nickel-metal battery pack–larger and heavier, but far more robust. Toyota’s plug-in hybrids and electric cars use lithium-ion batteries. There’s no indication that will change anytime soon.
At August’s Toyota Hybrid World Tour in Ypsilanti, Michigan, Ogiso said that Toyota was aiming for a 10-percent improvement over the current Prius with the next-generation hybrid hatchback. That would put the 2015 Toyota Prius at 56 mpg in the city and 53 in the city, averaging 55 mpg combined. The next-generation hatchback is expected to be larger and more refined than the current vehicle, and it is expected to use components from the Toyota Next Generation Architecture, which will mean it ought to be lower than the current car and hopefully handle better than the 2013 model we tested not too long ago.
Toyota will be showing off the 2015 Prius over the next few months, with the public unveiling expected to be at January’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
Speaking with us last week at a press event in Japan, Toyota managing officer Satoshi Ogiso, the “father of the Prius,” said that he’s had a lot of time studying Honda’s two-motor system and that the next Toyota system will be better.
“We’ve looked very closely at it,” he said. “We’re not worried.” He didn’t elaborate too much but to say that Toyota was well into development of its next system and would stick closely to the parallel hybrid system currently used by his company as well as Ford.
On the other hand, Honda’s two-motor system uses a clutch pack to modulate between the engine and electric motor system, essentially using the motors in place of a traditional transmission. In the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, it allows the somewhat heavy car to achieve a 50 mpg city/45 mpg highway fuel economy rating and uses a lithium-ion battery pack.
Toyota has continued to use a nickel-metal battery pack–larger and heavier, but far more robust. Toyota’s plug-in hybrids and electric cars use lithium-ion batteries. There’s no indication that will change anytime soon.
At August’s Toyota Hybrid World Tour in Ypsilanti, Michigan, Ogiso said that Toyota was aiming for a 10-percent improvement over the current Prius with the next-generation hybrid hatchback. That would put the 2015 Toyota Prius at 56 mpg in the city and 53 in the city, averaging 55 mpg combined. The next-generation hatchback is expected to be larger and more refined than the current vehicle, and it is expected to use components from the Toyota Next Generation Architecture, which will mean it ought to be lower than the current car and hopefully handle better than the 2013 model we tested not too long ago.
Toyota will be showing off the 2015 Prius over the next few months, with the public unveiling expected to be at January’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
Very interesting article. 60 mpg city isn't too far away.
#86
Just a few weeks ago, we found ourselves mightily impressed with the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, which uses a new two-motor hybrid system that allows it to be rated at 50 mpg city. Toyota, however, says that Honda may have brought its A-game, but it will be no match for the next generation hybrid technology coming from its Japanese rival.
Speaking with us last week at a press event in Japan, Toyota managing officer Satoshi Ogiso, the “father of the Prius,” said that he’s had a lot of time studying Honda’s two-motor system and that the next Toyota system will be better.
“We’ve looked very closely at it,” he said. “We’re not worried.” He didn’t elaborate too much but to say that Toyota was well into development of its next system and would stick closely to the parallel hybrid system currently used by his company as well as Ford.
On the other hand, Honda’s two-motor system uses a clutch pack to modulate between the engine and electric motor system, essentially using the motors in place of a traditional transmission. In the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, it allows the somewhat heavy car to achieve a 50 mpg city/45 mpg highway fuel economy rating and uses a lithium-ion battery pack.
Toyota has continued to use a nickel-metal battery pack–larger and heavier, but far more robust. Toyota’s plug-in hybrids and electric cars use lithium-ion batteries. There’s no indication that will change anytime soon.
At August’s Toyota Hybrid World Tour in Ypsilanti, Michigan, Ogiso said that Toyota was aiming for a 10-percent improvement over the current Prius with the next-generation hybrid hatchback. That would put the 2015 Toyota Prius at 56 mpg in the city and 53 in the city, averaging 55 mpg combined. The next-generation hatchback is expected to be larger and more refined than the current vehicle, and it is expected to use components from the Toyota Next Generation Architecture, which will mean it ought to be lower than the current car and hopefully handle better than the 2013 model we tested not too long ago.
Toyota will be showing off the 2015 Prius over the next few months, with the public unveiling expected to be at January’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
Speaking with us last week at a press event in Japan, Toyota managing officer Satoshi Ogiso, the “father of the Prius,” said that he’s had a lot of time studying Honda’s two-motor system and that the next Toyota system will be better.
“We’ve looked very closely at it,” he said. “We’re not worried.” He didn’t elaborate too much but to say that Toyota was well into development of its next system and would stick closely to the parallel hybrid system currently used by his company as well as Ford.
On the other hand, Honda’s two-motor system uses a clutch pack to modulate between the engine and electric motor system, essentially using the motors in place of a traditional transmission. In the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, it allows the somewhat heavy car to achieve a 50 mpg city/45 mpg highway fuel economy rating and uses a lithium-ion battery pack.
Toyota has continued to use a nickel-metal battery pack–larger and heavier, but far more robust. Toyota’s plug-in hybrids and electric cars use lithium-ion batteries. There’s no indication that will change anytime soon.
At August’s Toyota Hybrid World Tour in Ypsilanti, Michigan, Ogiso said that Toyota was aiming for a 10-percent improvement over the current Prius with the next-generation hybrid hatchback. That would put the 2015 Toyota Prius at 56 mpg in the city and 53 in the city, averaging 55 mpg combined. The next-generation hatchback is expected to be larger and more refined than the current vehicle, and it is expected to use components from the Toyota Next Generation Architecture, which will mean it ought to be lower than the current car and hopefully handle better than the 2013 model we tested not too long ago.
Toyota will be showing off the 2015 Prius over the next few months, with the public unveiling expected to be at January’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
Last edited by ydooby; 10-15-13 at 11:38 AM.
#87
#88
Lexus Champion
Nine-year-old Prius retains its youth
To see whether an aging Toyota Prius has lost a step, we borrowed a 2002 model with 206,000 miles on the odometer. Then we put it through some of the same tests we ran almost exactly 10 years earlier on a nearly identical 2001 tested car with 2,000 miles. We checked whether the battery had worn down, which would be expensive to fix because a new one costs $2,300 to $2,600 from a dealer (more like $500 from a salvage yard). We timed acceleration. And we determined whether the mpg was as high in the aged car as it had been in the new one.
Results
Gas mileage in the old Prius was virtually the same as it had been in the new. Acceleration was just slightly slower, which could have been due to weather or to the fact that the old car wasn't tuned up. Specifics are in the table below. Testers who drove the older car said it drove essentially identically to the one tested 10 years ago, and it had no squeaks or rattles.
Bottom line
The Prius that traveled 206,000 miles still acts like a youngster. Its expensive battery has not worn out, and its performance was similar to that of a new Prius tested 10 years ago.
To see whether an aging Toyota Prius has lost a step, we borrowed a 2002 model with 206,000 miles on the odometer. Then we put it through some of the same tests we ran almost exactly 10 years earlier on a nearly identical 2001 tested car with 2,000 miles. We checked whether the battery had worn down, which would be expensive to fix because a new one costs $2,300 to $2,600 from a dealer (more like $500 from a salvage yard). We timed acceleration. And we determined whether the mpg was as high in the aged car as it had been in the new one.
Results
Gas mileage in the old Prius was virtually the same as it had been in the new. Acceleration was just slightly slower, which could have been due to weather or to the fact that the old car wasn't tuned up. Specifics are in the table below. Testers who drove the older car said it drove essentially identically to the one tested 10 years ago, and it had no squeaks or rattles.
Bottom line
The Prius that traveled 206,000 miles still acts like a youngster. Its expensive battery has not worn out, and its performance was similar to that of a new Prius tested 10 years ago.
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