Lexus: Horsepower vs. Torque
 

I had a conversation the other day with Charles Hubbard about what people look for in a performance car. Hubbard is with the Lexus College, and one of my favorite resident Lexus-vehicle geniuses.

“You know, a lot of people buy horsepower, when what they really want is torque,” Hubbard told me. “Torque is what gets you to the speed you want quickly; horsepower is what keeps you there.”

The concept of horsepower as a measurement of work was identified in the 1800s by steam engine pioneer James Watt, who ponied up the term based on his observation of horses working in a mill. It’s an arcane concept that has stuck with us to this day.

Torque, on the other hand, is the twisting, rotational force generated by an engine; this force is transferred through the drive system into the wheels. Torque is what pushes you back in the seat when you step on the accelerator.

An engine might have plenty of horsepower, but hardly any torque. Think of a ship’s engine: it has the strength to move thousands of tons of steel, but it takes a loooong time to get up to speed. In other words, very little torque. By contrast, a vehicle can have so much torque that its tires are unable to get a grip, and simply spin. Pointless.

Lexus performance vehicles have exceptional horsepower and torque ratings. A quick look at the online Competitive Comparison, for example, reveals impressive numbers for the Lexus IS F: its horsepower and torque ratings exceed those of the BMW M3 and Audi A4.


THE SWEET SPOT

If you look closely at the comparison, you’ll notice that these peak horsepower and torque ratings are achieved at relatively high rpm. This high-rpm “sweet spot” is where maximum performance is delivered.

This demonstrates why engineering a performance car means far more that just sticking a high-power engine under the hood. The trick for engineers is to optimize the engine management system so that the car gets to this sweet spot quickly and remains there as long as possible. Everything plays a role: valve train, compression rating, transmission gearing, and so on.

Hubbard points out that this can lead to engine management choices that may not seem intuitive to the layman. For example, when the 2013 GS 350 F SPORT made its debut, many journalists asked why it came with a six-speed automatic transmission instead of the eight-speed automatic found in the LS. After all, more is better, right?

Not necessarily. In the case of the GS model, all things considered, the chief engineer felt he wouldn’t get the performance he wanted out of the car using an eight-speed transmission—too much torque for this particular model.

Of course, a great thing about the GS 350 F SPORT is that it offers Drive Mode Select: a dial that allows the driver to choose the level of performance they want: Eco, Normal, Sport, and Sport Plus. This feature lets drivers actually change torque delivery.

“The rotary dial lets me choose an ‘alter ego’ for the car,” says Hubbard. “In Eco mode, I get a real smooth shift; it takes some of the torque curve out of it, and backs off the suspension a little bit for a smooth ride. But if I want an alter ego—a Mr. Hyde to contrast that Dr. Jekyll—I just twist the knob up to Sport Plus. This alters my engine management, my transmission shifts, and my steering and suspension habits to where now I’ve got a real performance car.”


THE QUIET PERFORMERS

Of course, where torque really comes into play is in Lexus hybrid vehicles. Remember when we were talking about how gas engines wind up to a high rpm in order to deliver optimal torque? The same is not true of electric motors.

“The neat thing about our hybrid power trains is that electric motors give you instant torque,” says Hubbard. “As long as I’ve got plenty of juice in the battery, I can get all the power instantly and really make the car cook.”

Put differently, the instant torque provided by electric motors is what gives hybrids their surprising launch.

I guess this means we should set aside arguments about horsepower vs. torque. At the end of the day, it’s the driving experience that matters.

“Bottom line, if I’m going to be looking at a performance car right now, I would look at the GS,” concludes Hubbard. “It could be the GS 350 F SPORT or the GS 450h. Both of them offer Drive Mode Select with the Sport Plus setting, which gives you those alter egos I was talking about. And both are just a kick to drive.”

http://drivers.lexus.com/lexusdriver...ower-vs-Torque

Too much torque for this particular model with an 8-Speed auto?!?!

The GS350 has 306hp and 277lbft. The 8-Speed is found on the LS460, GS460, and IS-F. All of which have uber amounts of torque.. :/

Granted these are 8 cylinder vehicles with RWD, perhaps they couldn't mount an 8-speed currently with the DI 3.5. The RX350 F-Sport has the 8-speed with AWD and the non DI 3.5L V6 270hp 248lbft, So iono. All I think of when I hear things like is just an excuse to me.

They can do it. I'm thinking they're just gonna pull the who 300/430 to 350/460 crap and maybe throw an 8-speed in mid cycle refresh just to say oh look we did something new.

It's a testament to Lexus and their engineering that they can produce something like the GS with an aging powertrain and topple the Germans in a comparo, but I have to wonder how much better it would be with new hardware.

I've been blessed to see the 14 IS and I'm already sold on the design of the F-Sport, but as to no word about the powertrain, when it debuts I'll be very disappointed if it isn't an 8-speed. Enough that there's really no point to me upgrading from my 08 until they do so. Only time will tell

:egads:

This article was written for a complete and total moron.

Is this one of those "paid for by Lexus" ads?

Seems like a bunch of BS to me.

Can you comment on your impression of how the rear tail lights look in conjunction with the overall rear body profile?

Obviously I can't ask you to reveal specifics, but IIRC you've been a fan of the rear tail lights of the 2IS. Sleek looking rear tail lights are very important to me.

The 2IS, the post-2003 Mercedes SL, or the F10 BMW 5 series tail lights are among my favorites.

I don't like the 4GS tail lights as much (oddly enough I actually prefer the tail lights of the new ES more than the new GS - I think they look sleeker and flow better with the rest of the body).

How similar would you say the new IS tail lights look compared to the 4GS tail lights? What are your overall impressions of the new IS tail lights (do you like how they look? Do you think the 2IS did tail lights better? etc.)

i like a quote that i recently read "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races"
probably from a hot rod mag i had picked up the other day.

higher torque at lower RPM just means you have a more HP at lower RPM..

why would people always make it sounds like torque and HP are two different thing?

In real life driving, torque is lot more important than hp. I too agree the talk of "the 8 speed tranny is too much for the 4gs", sounds more like an excuse to me, and I bet it will be available for the midterm refresh.

This article is a "paid for by Lexus" ad as much as how some of your posts are "paid for by Hyundai"

(Hint: This is an article posted on the Lexus website.)

I can. The rear tail lights are very sharp. They flow extremely well with the rest of the rear. Looking at the rear from dead on, the tail lights are reminiscent of the 4GS, but much thinner. They have the new "LED tube look" that the GS and ES have. Between them the chrome bar connects the two, but at each side of the bar that touches the tails, the chrome shoots down wards at outward 45 degree angles that look like daggers (trapezoid). The rear deck is prominent and reminds me of a Wald or M3 spoiler. On the lower part of the bumper, the reflectors are still part of the design but also carry a sharper theme to them. The diffusor area is grey/blacked out and the dual exhaust looks to be in a wider position. Overall looking dead on at the rear you can see its stanced nicely with a wide track for a small RWD sports sedan. Coming around to the side, this is where the tails differentiate themselves from anything we've seen. They swoop downward at a sharp 45 degree angle to a dagger point roughly 6-8 inches before touching the rear fender. Meanwhile on the opposite side the side sills elegantly sweep upward at a 45 degree angle as if they were linked. It looks great IMHO. Hope this helps

Hoovey, lot more detail this time, I can almost 'see' the car in my imagination! :D Thanks!

Your very welcome :)

This never made sense to me. It seems silly to value torque over power. You can make up for a lack of torque with appropriate gearing (and engineers usually do just that in performance cars). You cannot make up for a lack of power. Not without adding more power.

Now the torque curve... That is pretty meaningful.

Makes no sense to me, especially the part about the ship engine having very little torque. Really? That's *all* they have, massive amounts of torque. Actually, cruise ships aren't even driven off of the engines, they're driven off of huge electric motors. The engines simply drive generators that power the entire ship, including its drive mechanism. Giant electric motors are nothing but pure torque. Torque is what moves weight. Torque is what pins you in the seat. Torque is way more fun!