spwolf

For 65k you get S63 AMG.

I think the problem is that you cant move it. I see 2008 Cayenne v8 here for less than 4cly diesel Rav4's that cost 4x less when new. Of course, it is Europe and fuel is $8.

NoLFA4U

Why would I give him 15k more than what they list for?

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...nal&listType=1

Actually he went and got a GX460 that he had, and traded on a AWD GS350.

I8ABMR

i see your point but my point is why would he accept 20K less than what they list for ( link you posted shows them at $49,500??

seems like he did tell someone to fly a kite, (LOL) since he brought a different car in

Blackraven

I may sound like a broken record on this but here are some suggestions that might work for an LS-F (to ensure that we AT LEAST have 500 hp)

1) They could probably see what they could do with the 2UR-GSE engine

If using an existing engine (with or without any minor power improvements), then they could probably go with forced induction......and given what Toyota Motor Corporation has done in its history, then they may likely go with a SUPERCHARGER.

I reckon that one supercharger can already provide as much as 100 hp additional power. Add another one and you get double the upgrade.

So
2UR-FSE engine + two latest-gen Eaton Twin Vortex superchargers = Beyond 600 hp (which is entering S65 AMG territory)

or another approach

2) Create an all-new V12 engine (based on the existing 1GZ-FE)

Interestingly, only a few people are aware of the engine that powers the JDM Toyota Century. In fact, this may probably be the only V12 engine that currently exists in the Toyota Motor Corporation stable. As much as 310 hp and 480 Nm of max torque for a V12 engine from 1997. That and it had two ECUs for each six-cylinder bank so the engine can still run even on six cylinders in case of malfunction/failure. Sorta like a variable displacement or cylinder deactivation principle...........but it wasn't proposed to save fuel but more of as a redundancy in case of emergency.

So with that in mind, TMC could go nuts and using the 1GZ-FE as a basis or foundation, they would then create an all-new V12 engine. With modern technology and engineering skills, they can probably make it have power output of no less than 500 hp IN ITSELF.

Then they could add superchargers for extra power. Imagine that. As you increase cylinder count, you increase the availability of your max torque and that you can definitely push it in the higher rev ranges (like 5000 rpm and beyond). Then with forced induction (like turbos OR superchargers), the torque will be increased as well as spread out even further............so even before you hit 2000 rpm, you will suddenly feel a jolt so intense that it can rip out your ***** from your privates

Crazy imaginations

Stormwind

I thought this thread is about the new LS with it's audi grill not about how much a used s class sells for. Can we get back on topic.

chuang

Like everyone on this forum, I waiting to see what the new LS look like. Maybe some good pictures will leak before it reveal. This time it will be a new MB S class or a new Lexus LS. I wish MB has the reliability of a Lexus and Lexus has the look of a MB.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

everything non LS please take it to pms

ikeb

i think:
1) the new LS will look very similar to the gs and es (but longer-like someone else said choice of small (ES)-medium(GS)- large(LS) and extra large(LSL))
2) same gizmos and interior as gs
3) 99% of internal guts the same as the 2012.

base prices the same as 2012, but luxury options more expensive than current models because of more gizmos - i'm guessing the base LS is going to cost 69,000 and add 12,000 with all the gizmos.

i looked at the GS not too long ago - navigation the same as current LS model (2002 technology) - i expect it to be the same junk making the iphone's navigon/tomtom/magellan the navigation of choice.

new gizmos: heads up, lane departure, night vision, mouse, 12" display and a few others

i also agree with another poster - best to wait a year or so to purchase in order to give them time to get all the gizmo bugs out.

i'm disappointed that they are not coming out with a 6 cylinder and a h450. I, personally, don't need all the power my 8 cylinder 2010LS has.

NoLFA4U

The 2013 nav is completely different. The new LS will definitely have it.

Toys4RJill

I wouldn't say its going to be 99% the same internals. It will have a HP change, reworked gearing and final drive ratio, GS like interior, LED headlights, LED daytime lights, MSRP will hold steady. The new LS460 will compete very nicely with Audi A8, not so much like a S-class.

Carmaker1

The current LS(pre-facelift) technology isn't that old. I say that as it was developmentally finished in 2005 and most of the technologies were engineered during 2004 and their implementation applied & tested in '05. Even the facelift has to be factored in for that matter. Also, it's possible they are only introducing these 4 models right now and in the near future, a performance variant and a smaller-displacement hybrid for 2014. I'd check trademark filings to see if that changes.

asoksevil

Actually the ES is longer than the GS, not to mention that ES cabin is roomier than the GS.

It will pretty much have every gizmos from the new GS, but what I would like to see is if the LS only gadgets like the Shiatsu Massage will be improved. Audi's A8 interior is just awesome, I hope the LS can go on pair with this or even surpassing it due to its "longer" development?

Also from now on the LS will go finally LED only.

spwolf

ES will not have every gizmo as GS, nor it will be luxurious as GS.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

Well, the current ES has all the 3GS options, minus the PCS system (Pre Collision System). Everything else is pretty much the same.... Mark Levinson, navigation, leather seats, side mirror turn signal blinkers, keyless entry...ect. The new ES model has all the options found in the 4GS as well, it even comes with PCS system now (optional). The only thing it does not have is that enormous screen. The interior however, looks luxurios. I already saw both models in person, hybrid and the gasoline version.

spwolf

I like the new ES... I like it a lot. I wish it was sold here in Europe so I could buy it.
I wish it was a lot better car than LS and GS and IS, so then I would not have to spend my hard earned money on those.

But reality is that it does not have LED lights, it doesnt have HUD, it doesnt have 12.3", it doesnt have amounts of leather and wood as GS, let alone LS, and it certainly will have everything lesser than those models. It is also FWD.

Now since GS450h F-Sport is $130k right now here, I might convince myself that next gen IS300h is much much better car than GS450h or LS600h, but in reality, there is a reason ES will be 10k less expensive than GS.