Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

look at flailing Maybach for example, which is why MBZ is planning to drop the brand and rather release Pullman variants slotted above the top of the line S-Classes.

Agreed no reason for another brand. Frankly I think they should have killed off Scion and gave us the 86 and rebadge the XB under Toyota to compete against Soul, Cube and redo the TC as Celica

rominl

iTrader: (4)

though when the topic comes up on genesis and equus, how many times we see people saying with authority that they won't succeed because of the brand hyundai not elite enough. double standard? equus is what, say 3 times the cost of a normal hyundai? 3 times the most expensive lexus mass production ls600hl and it's still not the 400k lfa. but assume a 800k lfa2? it's going to be interesting.

i am not saying lexus needs a separate brand, but at the same time i don't see why the answer is no by default either. one thing pretty clear is, there are voices among the US exotic groups that the lfa is way too overpriced and it's still a lexus. let's not get into the right or wrong about the statement, but fact is there.

i guess i am just trying to say it's fantastic if lexus is working on lfa2 (as i have said it very early on in the thread in lfa forum), however the marketing part is going to be very interesting and extremely challenging.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Those other cars mentioned are trying to be sold to make a profit. If Lexus was thinking of building the LFA2 to try and sell enough to turn a profit at that price range, yeah, I'd say they were smoking crack. But they know better. The LFA was limited to 500 copies and they knew they were not going to turn a profit on it. But the R&D put into that exercise has already seen some trickle down into the more plebian offerings like the new GS. If their target is only 100 copies, they know they will never turn a profit, and they are banking more on exclusivity and brand image. I have no doubt that they will be able to move 100 copies of a super exclusive vehicle.

A new brand to make a limited run, no profit expected, supercar with a model range of 1? (since as far as i know they are not putting the LFA into full time production). That makes no sense.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

hah I was trying to stay away from any Hyundai talk lol!

I applaud Hyundai for the genesis sedan and equus without creating a higher up luxury brand. The brand itself is becoming more premium than its Kia kissing cousin.

The only reason I would say no to a brand above Lexus, is that there isn't much of a market for cars of this caliber i.e. RR, Bentley, Maybach. Doesn't make too much sense to go against established ultra lux players like those, especially when we know haters would criticize Lexus solely based on the badge and not the actual car like they did with the LFA.

I also applaud Lexus for considering this LFA2. hell BMW doesn't even have a supercar lol

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

It doesn't matter to some naysayers. Even if they were to make a new brand and put out a Veyron-killing, ferrari-destroying, viper-eating supercar, they will continue to say its just a Toyota. I think it's different than the Hyundai debate since that is not a premium brand.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

Lexus shook up the luxury market with the LS in 1989. Who knows, maybe they can do the same to exotic cars

LexFather

YUP

Not nearly the same. Hyundai was selling pieces of monkey crap to people for decades and they have decided it doesn't make sense to make the effort to invest billions to markup the cars to lose some of the their pricing advantage. The Equus/Genesis helps the Hyundai brand b/c the brand still has image issues.

Lexus on the other hand has a history of success and even though not much in sport a halo LFA had executives in place to handle such a vehicle. If they needed a new brand they should have started with the LFA.

Now I can understand the reasoning for a another brand but would it be worth it especially when the thing the Europeans do is simply buy an old name and resurrect it. Pagani/Kossenegg are companies so small they have to have their own brand and don't own any sub brands.

We are all well are people think the LFA is overpriced and its not without merit. Its their opinion on the matter.

Ninja10r

The new 950 hp shelby mustang for a 150 and bust that azz.... I know sounds crazy,but gotta give to the man never gave a **** about none of them and some of his stuff from the 60's sales for more...crazy

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

uh what???

I8ABMR

I am praying they will go mid-engined

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well at least i never started any problems when talking about hyundai.

there are haters hating the lfa coz' it's a lexus. do you know there are also a lot of haters trashing lamborghini saying it's just an overpriced piece of vw (especially with gallardo)? imagine putting the gallardo under audi instead of lamborghini, want to bet how it's going to be like?

i think it's silly to think if the badge doesn't matter. again, simply make another example. how about toyota decided to do a toyota lfa instead of lexus lfa?

don't tell me toyota is not a "premium" brand as lexus. just as similarly, lexus is nowhere carrying the same kind of badge power as ferrari and lamborghini in the exotic market. it's sad but it's truth

like i said above, you think hyundai isn't a premium brand, so what make you think ferrari and lamborghini league people would do the same on the lexus brand?

nansayers are always there, playing victim on toyota won't make it a better case. as i mentioned lamborghini is just vw, a lot of people trash on that.

but i will agree that on all brands, there are always haters who don't like the brands just because.

i absolutely agree that if they wanted to start a new brand they should have started with lfa. but the fact is they didn't, they thought the lexus badge is enough. and i think at this point there are certain reality checks to show the lfa is seeing resistance here in the US.

regarding the "pieces of monkey crap", you pretty much just proved my point. to a lot of exotic owners (the actual people who can afford the car) lexus and toyota over the years didn't really put up anything exotic or high level of performance (last was supra which isn't exotic, and before that would have to date back to 2000gt in the 60s), and now having the lfa, which we (enthusiasts) know is a fantastic car, eating into the 400k range. in retrospect, how do you think some people in that league would think of the car compared to how you react on hyundai?

one thing i want to stress again, and i think you missed, is that i am not saying that lexus needs a new brand. in fact i am not sure if it's worth it. but that is tied very closely to what they have in mind with the lfa and lfa2 (assume it's coming). if they are seriously about entering this segment, i think it's going to be a lot of money and i think they should consider another branch.

however if they care more about the r&d and investment in terms of future mass production vehicles? then i think what they do now is warranted and is ok. however with that said, selling a 800k car will be much tougher with the lexus badge, i can safely say more than double the toughness in selling the current 17x lfa in the US.

i am simply saying about how tough it is, not saying if lexus should or not

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Toyota is not as premium a brand as Lexus. I consider it just as premium as Hyundai. We discuss Toyota in the same breath as Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Chevy, Ford, since they have models that directly compete with each other. When we discuss Lexus, we also compare it to BMW, MB, Audi, Jaguar, ie the premium brands. When we discuss Ferrari, we also mention Lamborghini, etc, and of course those higher league brands look down on the more plebian marques and of course the Lexus name cannot be compared to Ferrari. However, there are a few specific vehicles that transcend their brand and compete at levels beyond them. Ford GT. Dodge (now just SVT) Viper, Chevy Corvette ZR1, MB SLR (although Mclaren moniker did help), Nissan GTR, etc.

My opinion is that Lexus was smart not to start a third brand just for the LFA. Now if they were going to start a sports car line to compete with Ferrari and sell in numbers to turn a profit, yes, a third brand makes sense. The LFA is not that. Instead it is a rolling showcase of tech, used as a halo car, never intended to turn a profit and with a finite production run. They are not building anymore and its not a permanent model in the lineup. In that sense, I don't ever see Lexus entering this segment and offering one or two permanent competitors to Ferrari. The LFA2's job will be to raise the perception of Lexus again, not be a market success in and of itself. And taking numbers from the LFA, that would mean about 25-30 $800k LFA2s coming to the US. I think sales of those few models would be plausible.
BTW, there is an Audi Gallardo, its called the R8 GT!

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i think your 2nd paragraph pretty much goes in line with what i said in my post. if the lfa and lfa2 are all about future lexus mass production cars, another brand is almost pointless (too expensive). but to make a profit and such, not a good idea. the cars from normal brands that compete in the next level, yes they exist but we can see how they do. the zr1, viper, and gtr they aren't even anything close to ferrari pricing. the gt yup, not bad. the slr, hard sell just like the lfa, for similar reasons

selling 30 800k lfa2 here in the US? i don't think that's going to fly well. if lexus has trouble selling 170 lfa here in the US (you can still order yours now, btw), 800k lfa2 is extremely tough.

Gojirra99

They know they will find 30 U.S. Lexus dealership owners

VIPG35

iTrader: (6)

wow really