MM Review: 2012 Toyota Prius v Wagon
11-25-11, 08:04 PM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
MM Review: 2012 Toyota Prius v Wagon
By CL-member-request, a Review of the 2012 Toyota Prius v Wagon.
http://www.toyota.com/priusv/
IN A NUTSHELL: Don't confuse it with the Prius Plug-in or the regular-series Prius II, III, IV, and V hatchbacks...it's a completely different body-style.
I have some CL member-requests for a review of the new Toyota Prius v Wagon. But, since I've already done a full-length review of the latest (third-generation) Prius, and the v-wagon is basically just a slightly larger version of it with a roomier back seat/cargo-area and some other improvements, I'll start with a brief history of the Prius and how the new Prius Plug-in and v-Wagon differ from it.
After being sold in Japan for a year or so, The American-market Prius Hybrid was introduced in August of 2000, about 7-8 months after the first Honda Insight (I had the priviledge of test-driving one of the first models of both to arrive in the D.C. area). The first Insight was like a toy, but the Prius was actually a useful small car. Neither car, at first, due to their premium-pricing and lower gas prices at the time, sold in huge numbers, but as gas gradually got more expensive and volatile, sales of the Prius took off over the years. The car got more or less a cult-following, and ended up the darling of the left-wing media, environmentalists, Hollywood celebrities, and ordinary buyers who were willing to pay an extra premium over the price of a conventional gas-powered small car to get better fuel mileage, tax-credits, and HOV-priviledges.
The regular Prius hatchback in now in its third-generation. In my 3Gen Prius review, I respected the more-efficient drivetrain (now over 50 MPG on the highway) and better-handling with less body-roll (the old car rolled like a beach-ball). But I was not as impressed with the now-stiffer ride or the weight/cost-cutting that resulted in tinny sheet metal and interior materials. I took some criticism from other CL members for what I wrote on the cheapening of the sheet-metal and interior, but that's my finding, and I'm standing by it. Now, in addition to the regular third-generation model, Toyota is introducing two other versions of the Prius......a long-range rechargeable plug-in model with electronics similiar to the Chevrolet Volt, and the
Prius v Wagon, which is a slightly larger and more space-efficient version of the Prius hatchback. The plug-in model is scheduled for limited-production now, but the Prius v is intended to be a regular mass-produced model.
As if the naming of the regular Prius II/III/IV/V hatchbacks wasn't complex enough, the Prius-v Wagon adds three more to it.....Prius-v-Two ($26,400), Prius-v-Three ($27,165) , and Prius-v-Five ($29,990). Yes, a top-line Prius, today, with options, can run well over $30,000.....entry-level territory for the Lexus CT200h hatchback. Although the car, admittedly, does include a lot of expensive electronic-technology and a very efficient drivetrain, the prices do, to some extent, reflect the glamorization of the Prius from the media, environmentalists, and celebrities. The demand for the Prius has been enormous for several years now, and both Toyota and its dealers have been able to capitalize on it. Still, IMO, it is not as much of a rip-off as the $40,000-plus Chevrolet Volt, which of course, I stressed in my Volt review. Even the Prius Plug-in will start at 32K, some 8-9K less than the Volt, though there will likely be dealer-markups on both cars. Orders for the limited-production plug-in version are being taken on a deposit/waiting-list basis.
The local Toyota shops in my areas have a few (though not many) Prius v models in stock. For the review, I chose a Gray v-Three model with almost no options, which listed for a reasonable $28,150. I didn't talk a serious deal, of course, but the salespeople there hinted that there would be a mark-up over list, as there often is with Prius models. Overall, I wasn't terribly impressed with the last third-generation Prius I drove.....and though there are a couple of improvements on the new wagon model (gas mileage not being one of them), I wasn't terribly impressed with this one, either. Details coming up.
MODEL REVIEWED: 2012 Toyota Prius v-Three Wagon
BASE PRICE: $27,165
OPTIONS:
Trunk Mat and Carpeted Floor Mats: $225
DESTINATION/FREIGHT: $760 (about average for most smaller cars now).
LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $28,150
EXTERIOR COLOR: Magnetic Gray
INTERIOR: Misty Gray Cloth (a very light Dove-gray color)
DRIVETRAIN: FWD, Transversely-mounted 1.8-Liter in-line gasoline-4, 98 hp @ 5200 RPM, Torque 105 lb.-ft. @ 4000 RPM. Permanent-magnet AC electric-motor, 90 HP, Torque 153 ft-lbs. (Electric motors, theoretically, make peak power at 0 RPM and decrease with engine-speed). CVT (Continuously-variable-transmission).
EPA MILEAGE RATING: 44 City / 40 Highway (parallel-type hybrids typically do better in stop-and-go traffic)
PLUSSES:
Refined, well-engineered hybrid powertrain.
Reasonably quiet wind-noise level.
Fairly smooth ride comfort.
Good (but not excellent) paint-job.
Some nice paint-colors (but why no green-shades for a hybrid)?
Reasonably good rear-vision from driver's seat.
Well-shaped, slick-folding side-mirrors.
Good stereo-sound quality.
Fairly good-quality interior hardware/*****, controls, etc....
Well-marked interior buttons/controls.
Good interior space-efficiency.
Good front and rear headroom for tall persons.
Fairly good rear legroom for tall persons.
Comparatively easy entry/exit.
Comfortable front cloth seats.
Nice-feeling cloth upholstery.
Consistantly good reliability record.
Free factory-recommended maintenance for two years/25,000 miles.
Low depreciation/ good resale-value probable (but depends on the amount of dealer-markup on initial-sale).
Qualifies for some local and/or Federal alternate-fuel-vehicle tax-credits.
Qualifies, in some areas, for HOV-priviledges (useful during big-city rush-hours)
MINUSES:
Grabby, non-linear brake-pedal action.
Noticeable road noise.
Relatively slow steering response.
Body lean on sharp corners.
Push-and-wait engine-start in some modes.
Geeky styling (IMO)
Ugly (IMO) front-end and grille.
Manual prop-rod for the hood.
Tight underhood crowding.
(but, with a hybrid, it may not matter)
Tin-can body sheet-metal.
Undersized, Kiddie-Car steering wheel.
No instruments/displays at all directly in front of the driver.
Circus-like center-dash LCD/bar-graph displays.
Paper-thin cargo pull-shade cover.
Soft-Tex imitation-leather-option instead of the real stuff.
(But, in fairness, I did not sample it)
Super-thin inner-door-trim plastic.
Cheesy ceiling-liner fabric.
No body-side mouldings for parking-lot protection.
No tachometer (that I could find) for the gas-engine.
Extra-cost for White Pearl paint.
Small gas-engine battery and temporary-spare tire in cargo area very difficult to get at.
Price mark-ups likely.
Factory Roadside-Assistance Program for only 2 years/25,000 miles.
EXTERIOR:
The Prius v Wagon is slightly longer than its regular-size cousin, mostly in the rear-end and cargo area for more space-efficiency back there. Styling, of course, is subjective, but I personally have never been a fan of Prius styling (in any generation). I also think that this version, like past ones, is Geeky-looking and unattractive. The ugly (IMO) front-end and grille looks a catfish being dragged out of a Southern lake. The sheet metal is so thin (probably to save weight and cost) that I can buckle it in and out just by pressing on it with my knuckles (and I've got arthritis in a couple of them). The fairly low ground-clearance does not offer much room over humps/road-obstacles or deep snow. There are no body-side mouldings to help protect against parking-lot dings. Mouldings are especially important in cars of this type that are often used for commuting and/or shopping, and parked in close-proximity to other vehicles for long periods.
But not all is poorly-done outside....there are some good things, too. IMO, the wagon version, despite its Geekiness, is somewhat better-looking in the rear than the standard Prius, and that more squared-off styling not only helps space efficiency but rear-vision as well. The paint job is not quite up to some of the slick standards we've come to expect from Toyota, but is generally well-done...the medium-to-dark gray on my test car had a small amount of orange-peel, but was otherwise smooth. Of the seven different paint-colors offered, there were two shades of blue (light and dark), a medium-red, and an extra-cost White Pearl that I thought was nice. All the exterior trim and hardware seemed to be of reasonably good quality and well-attached. The two side-mirrors both folded slickly/smoothly and were well-shaped for vision. And I thought that both the 16 and 17-inch alloy wheels were reasonably good-looking, though their spokes are both a little asymmetrical, which, to me, spoils it a little.
UNDERHOOD:
Nothing really new here. The hood is propped-up with a manual rod instead of nice gas-struts or springs, although the tin-can sheet metal makes the hood light enough that this is not too cumbersome. There is a noise-absorbing underhood insulation pad...but the car is often so quiet, especially when running in full-electric mode, that the pad is redundant. Underneath, the same 1.8L in-line gasoline four and AC electric-motor (with some tweaks) from other Prius models is stuffed in the small engine-compartment. As expected, the two motors and CVT transmission underhood make things tight. But, in all fairness, except for some very simple things like oil-changes, few owners outside of Toyota or ASE-certified hybrid-technicians are going to attempt to do any significant underhood work anyway. The sheer complexity of this type of vehicle underhood all but rules it ot for most DIY'ers. Dipsticks, filler-caps, and fluid-reservoirs are all generally easy to reach.
INTERIOR:
The interior, overall, is an improvement from the poorly-designed, excessively Geeky interior on the regular Prius. The biggest improvement is in the new console/center-dash area. Gone is that big, ridiculous, Natural-Bridge-shaped hole in the console that forced you to reach down through it, to the floor, to reach the heated-seat buttons. (I'll bet the Toyota owner-surveys really panned that one). In its place is a much more conventional console, but with a cut-out in front that allows more control buttons/***** on the center-dash. The old console had a stubby transmission shift-lever. On the Prius v, the shift-lever has been moved back to the dash with a small stub-handle that moves smoothly into gear and then snaps back to the center-positon...you rely on a dash-light to see what driving-range you are in. I generally prefered the console-mounted shift lever, but the dash stub-handle works smoothly and slickly enough that it is hard to complain about it. The dash-covering seems to be of a decent material. The stereo sound quality is quite good. The *****/buttons are well-marked, reasonably solid, and work slickly. The NAV screen incorporates a graphic feature that allows you to see the gas-vs.-electric flow to the drive wheels (a feature that Honda hybrids traditionally have lacked). There is good headroom for guys my size (6' 2") front and rear, and entry/exit is fairly easy. Rear legroom is also good for taller people....undoubtedly from the extra length and higher roofline of the wagon's body. The front seats, IMO, are comfortable, though, in the v-Three trim level, they lack power-adjustments. The fabric covering seemed of decent quality and had a nice feel. Toyota doesn't use true leather in the Prius v, but, instead, uses an imitation leather they call Soft-Tex. I didn't get to sample it, but if it is anything like the Nu-Luxe used in the Lexus CT200h, it should be pretty nice stuff. Certainly better, at least, than some of the faux-leather (vinyl) stuff that the Germans use in their cars. The interior hardware was (mostly) of decently good quality, and seemed a stup up from the regular Prius.
But there were still a number of things inside that, IMO, were quite annoying. The steering wheel, though generally well-shaped, was noticeably smaller than those of many other cars.....in comparison, it looked and felt like something out of a Kiddie-Car. Behind the steering wheel, the driver looks straight ahead at a stark-plain dash....all the gauges/displays are in the center-dash area, either on the NAV-screen or the LCD-display above it. Toyota has done this since the very first Prius debuted in 2000, and, IMO, seriously needs to consider a major redesign to analog primary-gauges and put them back in front of the driver, where they belong. The grouping of a bunch of LCD lights and bar-graphs for the speed/hybrid/charge/fuel-level functions in the center of the dash is a mess, and I don't know how owners can get used to it without driving the car a long time first. Worst of all, in the interior, are the upper-door-panel plastic trim-panels......they are so thin and cheap that, like the body sheet-metal, I could buckle then in and out just using my knuckles. The rest of the door-panel trim, though, seemed OK.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
The cargo-area liftgate opens up to a good-sized cargo area...noticeably roomier than on the regular Prius hatchback. The floor and sides could be better-trimmed, but there is a reasonably nice light-colored fabric/carpet sprucing them up a little. The rear-seats, of course, fold down for added cargo-space. The big Nickel-Metal-Hydride battery-pack for the electric-motor is below and just back of the rear-seat, under the floor, but doesn't seem to rob the cargo area of much space. Why Toyota doesn't use an advanced Lithium-Ion battery on this brand-new, supposedly state-of-the art hybrid, I don't know. I had the same question a few months ago when I reviewed the Lexus CT200h, which was also new at the time. The upcoming Prius Plug-in model, however, which is intended to compete with the Chevrolet Volt, will, according to the specs I've seen, use a Lithium-Ion battery. I was unaware that the Prius v had a conventional gas-engine battery. I thought the gas-engine was started from the big hybrid battery-pack. The Toyota people said that the gas-engine battery is under the floor of the trunk, in the extreme right corner, and can only be reached by taking out several panels (I didn't fool with it).
Getting back to the rest of the cargo area, the solidness of the materials used are just barely adequate for the job. The pull-cover shade that actually hides the cargo is especially flimsy, being paper-thin. It literally feels like it can tear off right in your hands (I'm not exaggerating)....this is also the case on the regular Third-Generation Prius.
ON THE ROAD:
I know I've b***hed a lot about other things on this car, but now we come to what is arguably its best feature......the smooth, refined, and well-engineered hybrid drivetrain. Hybrid-drivetrain-engineering is one area where Toyota regularly trumps its closest rival, Honda. Honda IMA hybrids, in comparison, are crude, lumpy, and unrefined in their operation. Most of them, unlike Toyota hybrids, are series rather than parallel, meaning that they cannot operate on the electrics alone, though with the latest Honda hybrids, that is starting to change. My only real complaint with the drivetrain was with the start-up procedure itself. You press the START button, and, at first, are rewarded with silence. Depending on the state of the two batteries, computer, and charging-system, you might have a wait before the computer says, with a yellow dash-light, that you are ready to go....I waited about 15 or 30 seconds. When the light comes on, you take off on either on the gas or the electric motor...whatever the computer gives you. On the road, you can select either Power or Economy mode, which will alter the fuel-injection, gas/electric-output relationship, and transmission characteristics to suit the driving-needs. It is interesting to note that, even with pretty much the same hybrid drivetrain as the regular Prius, the Prius v doesn't match the EPA mileage ratings...perhaps because of the car's slightly larger size and weight. Still, though it doesn't match the 51 MPG of the regular Prius, the 44 MPG in the city is nothing to laugh at.
The drivetrain, of course, in the Toyota hybrid tradition, is smooth, quiet, and refined. It delivers adequate power for the economical driving it was designed for, but you won't win any drag races with Mustangs or Camaros. You sometimes take off and accelerate in errie silence, almost like driving a golf-cart. The chassis, likewise, is adquate for the job it was designed for. But, again, though, this is no sports car.....nor was it designed to be. Toss it around a corner with some gusto and the high center of gravity and un-sporting underpinnings will give you noticeable body-roll. Steering response, likewise, is a little on the slow side (but faster than I expected). The steering-assist, of course, is electrically-operated (like many other of the car's functions), and has very smooth action. Wind noise is well-muted, but some noticeable road noise from the economy-oriented tires comes through, especially on coarse road surfaces....that may (?) be due to the thin sheet metal and lack of body/wheel-well insulation. Ride comfort is fairly smooth (smoother, IMO, than the regular Prius), but sharp bumps can be felt and heard. Braking action, like that on some other hybrids, is not linear in the pedal-feel. The regenerative-braking system, which uses the electric-motor in reverse as a generator to help recharge the battery-pack on deceleration and braking, definitely affects the pedal-action. There is a small amount of free-play in the pedal, then a slight increase in braking-action, then, as you keep pressing, a rapid increase in deceleration. It is difficult to brake smoothly and consistantly, though you get a little more used to it after several minutes. Fortunately, my big size-15 clod-hopper clown-shoes didn't have much of a problem hanging up on the bottom or edge of the brake pedal when going from gas to brake....a problem on some vehicles.
THE VERDICT:
I just don't understand the continuing fascination with the Prius from celebrities, college-professors, librarians, environmentalists, and all the others who seem to think that it's the poster-boy of the modern automotive world. Consumer Reports (a magazine that I usually, but not always, agree with) likes it, too. Yes, it has a well-engineered, refined, and efficient hybrid drivetrain......but all Toyota/Lexus hybrids do. Yes, it has a good reliability record.....but so do a lot of other vehicles. Yes, it was the first American-market 4-door hybrid, and far more useful than its first competitor, the 2000 Honda insight. But time doesn't stand still, and a number of other vehicles have also come along that offer great gas-mileage, good reliability, and reasonable prices. Small VW diesels, for instance, get comparable (or almost comparable) fuel-mileage with less mechnical/electrical complexity, though their electrical systems are not always reliable. Newer compact and sub-compact cars like the Hyundai Accent/Elantra, Kia Rio, Ford Focus/Fiesta, and others can achieve 40 MPG on the highway, again with less complexity and significantly lower selling-prices. Honda's own Insight offers more-or-less comparable mileage to the Prius v (but not the regular Prius) at a substantially lower price, but of course, is more cramped and less-refined mechanically/electrically. And the Insight, IMO, has a better-quality (though plasticky) interior than the regular Prius (but not that of the Prius v). And the Civic Hybrid, while also lacking some mechanical/electrical refinement, solves the cramped-interior problem of the Insight.
So, my point in bringing all this up is that I just don't consider the Prius a halo-car. The well-done hybrid drivetrain, IMO, does not necessarily overcome what, IMO, are a number of other deficiencies in its design and construction. I respect other viewpoints to the contrary (and I know there are plenty of contrasting viewpoints, even in CL). But I was asked for my opinion of the car, and I'm going to call it as I see it, just as I have done in the past with other Prius models. And, BTW, I actually had a rather high opinion of the last, second-generation Prius. Although its Roly-Poly handling was sub-par, it had a smooth silky ride, good interior materials, and solid sheet metal. I thought that, because of weight and cost-cutting, the overall quality of third-generation models sank significantly, despite the better mileage (up to 51 MPG with the regular Prius).
But I am only one auto reviewer out of many, and though I stick with my own findings, I respect the opinions of others. This is not a car that I would buy with money out of my own pocket, but others who see it and drive it may think or decide otherwise. And there is no denying the car's cult-like following....it does satisfy its share of owners. So, for those of you who agree with me, fine. For those of you who don't, and if you like the car, then go for it. But if you do decide to shop for one, be careful at the dealerships. There is a good chance that the salespeople will try and get all they can out of you....even more so than usual, because there ARE peole who love this car enough to pay more than list-price to take one home.
And, as always.....Happy car-shopping.
MM
http://www.toyota.com/priusv/
IN A NUTSHELL: Don't confuse it with the Prius Plug-in or the regular-series Prius II, III, IV, and V hatchbacks...it's a completely different body-style.
I have some CL member-requests for a review of the new Toyota Prius v Wagon. But, since I've already done a full-length review of the latest (third-generation) Prius, and the v-wagon is basically just a slightly larger version of it with a roomier back seat/cargo-area and some other improvements, I'll start with a brief history of the Prius and how the new Prius Plug-in and v-Wagon differ from it.
After being sold in Japan for a year or so, The American-market Prius Hybrid was introduced in August of 2000, about 7-8 months after the first Honda Insight (I had the priviledge of test-driving one of the first models of both to arrive in the D.C. area). The first Insight was like a toy, but the Prius was actually a useful small car. Neither car, at first, due to their premium-pricing and lower gas prices at the time, sold in huge numbers, but as gas gradually got more expensive and volatile, sales of the Prius took off over the years. The car got more or less a cult-following, and ended up the darling of the left-wing media, environmentalists, Hollywood celebrities, and ordinary buyers who were willing to pay an extra premium over the price of a conventional gas-powered small car to get better fuel mileage, tax-credits, and HOV-priviledges.
The regular Prius hatchback in now in its third-generation. In my 3Gen Prius review, I respected the more-efficient drivetrain (now over 50 MPG on the highway) and better-handling with less body-roll (the old car rolled like a beach-ball). But I was not as impressed with the now-stiffer ride or the weight/cost-cutting that resulted in tinny sheet metal and interior materials. I took some criticism from other CL members for what I wrote on the cheapening of the sheet-metal and interior, but that's my finding, and I'm standing by it. Now, in addition to the regular third-generation model, Toyota is introducing two other versions of the Prius......a long-range rechargeable plug-in model with electronics similiar to the Chevrolet Volt, and the
Prius v Wagon, which is a slightly larger and more space-efficient version of the Prius hatchback. The plug-in model is scheduled for limited-production now, but the Prius v is intended to be a regular mass-produced model.
As if the naming of the regular Prius II/III/IV/V hatchbacks wasn't complex enough, the Prius-v Wagon adds three more to it.....Prius-v-Two ($26,400), Prius-v-Three ($27,165) , and Prius-v-Five ($29,990). Yes, a top-line Prius, today, with options, can run well over $30,000.....entry-level territory for the Lexus CT200h hatchback. Although the car, admittedly, does include a lot of expensive electronic-technology and a very efficient drivetrain, the prices do, to some extent, reflect the glamorization of the Prius from the media, environmentalists, and celebrities. The demand for the Prius has been enormous for several years now, and both Toyota and its dealers have been able to capitalize on it. Still, IMO, it is not as much of a rip-off as the $40,000-plus Chevrolet Volt, which of course, I stressed in my Volt review. Even the Prius Plug-in will start at 32K, some 8-9K less than the Volt, though there will likely be dealer-markups on both cars. Orders for the limited-production plug-in version are being taken on a deposit/waiting-list basis.
The local Toyota shops in my areas have a few (though not many) Prius v models in stock. For the review, I chose a Gray v-Three model with almost no options, which listed for a reasonable $28,150. I didn't talk a serious deal, of course, but the salespeople there hinted that there would be a mark-up over list, as there often is with Prius models. Overall, I wasn't terribly impressed with the last third-generation Prius I drove.....and though there are a couple of improvements on the new wagon model (gas mileage not being one of them), I wasn't terribly impressed with this one, either. Details coming up.
MODEL REVIEWED: 2012 Toyota Prius v-Three Wagon
BASE PRICE: $27,165
OPTIONS:
Trunk Mat and Carpeted Floor Mats: $225
DESTINATION/FREIGHT: $760 (about average for most smaller cars now).
LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $28,150
EXTERIOR COLOR: Magnetic Gray
INTERIOR: Misty Gray Cloth (a very light Dove-gray color)
DRIVETRAIN: FWD, Transversely-mounted 1.8-Liter in-line gasoline-4, 98 hp @ 5200 RPM, Torque 105 lb.-ft. @ 4000 RPM. Permanent-magnet AC electric-motor, 90 HP, Torque 153 ft-lbs. (Electric motors, theoretically, make peak power at 0 RPM and decrease with engine-speed). CVT (Continuously-variable-transmission).
EPA MILEAGE RATING: 44 City / 40 Highway (parallel-type hybrids typically do better in stop-and-go traffic)
PLUSSES:
Refined, well-engineered hybrid powertrain.
Reasonably quiet wind-noise level.
Fairly smooth ride comfort.
Good (but not excellent) paint-job.
Some nice paint-colors (but why no green-shades for a hybrid)?
Reasonably good rear-vision from driver's seat.
Well-shaped, slick-folding side-mirrors.
Good stereo-sound quality.
Fairly good-quality interior hardware/*****, controls, etc....
Well-marked interior buttons/controls.
Good interior space-efficiency.
Good front and rear headroom for tall persons.
Fairly good rear legroom for tall persons.
Comparatively easy entry/exit.
Comfortable front cloth seats.
Nice-feeling cloth upholstery.
Consistantly good reliability record.
Free factory-recommended maintenance for two years/25,000 miles.
Low depreciation/ good resale-value probable (but depends on the amount of dealer-markup on initial-sale).
Qualifies for some local and/or Federal alternate-fuel-vehicle tax-credits.
Qualifies, in some areas, for HOV-priviledges (useful during big-city rush-hours)
MINUSES:
Grabby, non-linear brake-pedal action.
Noticeable road noise.
Relatively slow steering response.
Body lean on sharp corners.
Push-and-wait engine-start in some modes.
Geeky styling (IMO)
Ugly (IMO) front-end and grille.
Manual prop-rod for the hood.
Tight underhood crowding.
(but, with a hybrid, it may not matter)
Tin-can body sheet-metal.
Undersized, Kiddie-Car steering wheel.
No instruments/displays at all directly in front of the driver.
Circus-like center-dash LCD/bar-graph displays.
Paper-thin cargo pull-shade cover.
Soft-Tex imitation-leather-option instead of the real stuff.
(But, in fairness, I did not sample it)
Super-thin inner-door-trim plastic.
Cheesy ceiling-liner fabric.
No body-side mouldings for parking-lot protection.
No tachometer (that I could find) for the gas-engine.
Extra-cost for White Pearl paint.
Small gas-engine battery and temporary-spare tire in cargo area very difficult to get at.
Price mark-ups likely.
Factory Roadside-Assistance Program for only 2 years/25,000 miles.
EXTERIOR:
The Prius v Wagon is slightly longer than its regular-size cousin, mostly in the rear-end and cargo area for more space-efficiency back there. Styling, of course, is subjective, but I personally have never been a fan of Prius styling (in any generation). I also think that this version, like past ones, is Geeky-looking and unattractive. The ugly (IMO) front-end and grille looks a catfish being dragged out of a Southern lake. The sheet metal is so thin (probably to save weight and cost) that I can buckle it in and out just by pressing on it with my knuckles (and I've got arthritis in a couple of them). The fairly low ground-clearance does not offer much room over humps/road-obstacles or deep snow. There are no body-side mouldings to help protect against parking-lot dings. Mouldings are especially important in cars of this type that are often used for commuting and/or shopping, and parked in close-proximity to other vehicles for long periods.
But not all is poorly-done outside....there are some good things, too. IMO, the wagon version, despite its Geekiness, is somewhat better-looking in the rear than the standard Prius, and that more squared-off styling not only helps space efficiency but rear-vision as well. The paint job is not quite up to some of the slick standards we've come to expect from Toyota, but is generally well-done...the medium-to-dark gray on my test car had a small amount of orange-peel, but was otherwise smooth. Of the seven different paint-colors offered, there were two shades of blue (light and dark), a medium-red, and an extra-cost White Pearl that I thought was nice. All the exterior trim and hardware seemed to be of reasonably good quality and well-attached. The two side-mirrors both folded slickly/smoothly and were well-shaped for vision. And I thought that both the 16 and 17-inch alloy wheels were reasonably good-looking, though their spokes are both a little asymmetrical, which, to me, spoils it a little.
UNDERHOOD:
Nothing really new here. The hood is propped-up with a manual rod instead of nice gas-struts or springs, although the tin-can sheet metal makes the hood light enough that this is not too cumbersome. There is a noise-absorbing underhood insulation pad...but the car is often so quiet, especially when running in full-electric mode, that the pad is redundant. Underneath, the same 1.8L in-line gasoline four and AC electric-motor (with some tweaks) from other Prius models is stuffed in the small engine-compartment. As expected, the two motors and CVT transmission underhood make things tight. But, in all fairness, except for some very simple things like oil-changes, few owners outside of Toyota or ASE-certified hybrid-technicians are going to attempt to do any significant underhood work anyway. The sheer complexity of this type of vehicle underhood all but rules it ot for most DIY'ers. Dipsticks, filler-caps, and fluid-reservoirs are all generally easy to reach.
INTERIOR:
The interior, overall, is an improvement from the poorly-designed, excessively Geeky interior on the regular Prius. The biggest improvement is in the new console/center-dash area. Gone is that big, ridiculous, Natural-Bridge-shaped hole in the console that forced you to reach down through it, to the floor, to reach the heated-seat buttons. (I'll bet the Toyota owner-surveys really panned that one). In its place is a much more conventional console, but with a cut-out in front that allows more control buttons/***** on the center-dash. The old console had a stubby transmission shift-lever. On the Prius v, the shift-lever has been moved back to the dash with a small stub-handle that moves smoothly into gear and then snaps back to the center-positon...you rely on a dash-light to see what driving-range you are in. I generally prefered the console-mounted shift lever, but the dash stub-handle works smoothly and slickly enough that it is hard to complain about it. The dash-covering seems to be of a decent material. The stereo sound quality is quite good. The *****/buttons are well-marked, reasonably solid, and work slickly. The NAV screen incorporates a graphic feature that allows you to see the gas-vs.-electric flow to the drive wheels (a feature that Honda hybrids traditionally have lacked). There is good headroom for guys my size (6' 2") front and rear, and entry/exit is fairly easy. Rear legroom is also good for taller people....undoubtedly from the extra length and higher roofline of the wagon's body. The front seats, IMO, are comfortable, though, in the v-Three trim level, they lack power-adjustments. The fabric covering seemed of decent quality and had a nice feel. Toyota doesn't use true leather in the Prius v, but, instead, uses an imitation leather they call Soft-Tex. I didn't get to sample it, but if it is anything like the Nu-Luxe used in the Lexus CT200h, it should be pretty nice stuff. Certainly better, at least, than some of the faux-leather (vinyl) stuff that the Germans use in their cars. The interior hardware was (mostly) of decently good quality, and seemed a stup up from the regular Prius.
But there were still a number of things inside that, IMO, were quite annoying. The steering wheel, though generally well-shaped, was noticeably smaller than those of many other cars.....in comparison, it looked and felt like something out of a Kiddie-Car. Behind the steering wheel, the driver looks straight ahead at a stark-plain dash....all the gauges/displays are in the center-dash area, either on the NAV-screen or the LCD-display above it. Toyota has done this since the very first Prius debuted in 2000, and, IMO, seriously needs to consider a major redesign to analog primary-gauges and put them back in front of the driver, where they belong. The grouping of a bunch of LCD lights and bar-graphs for the speed/hybrid/charge/fuel-level functions in the center of the dash is a mess, and I don't know how owners can get used to it without driving the car a long time first. Worst of all, in the interior, are the upper-door-panel plastic trim-panels......they are so thin and cheap that, like the body sheet-metal, I could buckle then in and out just using my knuckles. The rest of the door-panel trim, though, seemed OK.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
The cargo-area liftgate opens up to a good-sized cargo area...noticeably roomier than on the regular Prius hatchback. The floor and sides could be better-trimmed, but there is a reasonably nice light-colored fabric/carpet sprucing them up a little. The rear-seats, of course, fold down for added cargo-space. The big Nickel-Metal-Hydride battery-pack for the electric-motor is below and just back of the rear-seat, under the floor, but doesn't seem to rob the cargo area of much space. Why Toyota doesn't use an advanced Lithium-Ion battery on this brand-new, supposedly state-of-the art hybrid, I don't know. I had the same question a few months ago when I reviewed the Lexus CT200h, which was also new at the time. The upcoming Prius Plug-in model, however, which is intended to compete with the Chevrolet Volt, will, according to the specs I've seen, use a Lithium-Ion battery. I was unaware that the Prius v had a conventional gas-engine battery. I thought the gas-engine was started from the big hybrid battery-pack. The Toyota people said that the gas-engine battery is under the floor of the trunk, in the extreme right corner, and can only be reached by taking out several panels (I didn't fool with it).
Getting back to the rest of the cargo area, the solidness of the materials used are just barely adequate for the job. The pull-cover shade that actually hides the cargo is especially flimsy, being paper-thin. It literally feels like it can tear off right in your hands (I'm not exaggerating)....this is also the case on the regular Third-Generation Prius.
ON THE ROAD:
I know I've b***hed a lot about other things on this car, but now we come to what is arguably its best feature......the smooth, refined, and well-engineered hybrid drivetrain. Hybrid-drivetrain-engineering is one area where Toyota regularly trumps its closest rival, Honda. Honda IMA hybrids, in comparison, are crude, lumpy, and unrefined in their operation. Most of them, unlike Toyota hybrids, are series rather than parallel, meaning that they cannot operate on the electrics alone, though with the latest Honda hybrids, that is starting to change. My only real complaint with the drivetrain was with the start-up procedure itself. You press the START button, and, at first, are rewarded with silence. Depending on the state of the two batteries, computer, and charging-system, you might have a wait before the computer says, with a yellow dash-light, that you are ready to go....I waited about 15 or 30 seconds. When the light comes on, you take off on either on the gas or the electric motor...whatever the computer gives you. On the road, you can select either Power or Economy mode, which will alter the fuel-injection, gas/electric-output relationship, and transmission characteristics to suit the driving-needs. It is interesting to note that, even with pretty much the same hybrid drivetrain as the regular Prius, the Prius v doesn't match the EPA mileage ratings...perhaps because of the car's slightly larger size and weight. Still, though it doesn't match the 51 MPG of the regular Prius, the 44 MPG in the city is nothing to laugh at.
The drivetrain, of course, in the Toyota hybrid tradition, is smooth, quiet, and refined. It delivers adequate power for the economical driving it was designed for, but you won't win any drag races with Mustangs or Camaros. You sometimes take off and accelerate in errie silence, almost like driving a golf-cart. The chassis, likewise, is adquate for the job it was designed for. But, again, though, this is no sports car.....nor was it designed to be. Toss it around a corner with some gusto and the high center of gravity and un-sporting underpinnings will give you noticeable body-roll. Steering response, likewise, is a little on the slow side (but faster than I expected). The steering-assist, of course, is electrically-operated (like many other of the car's functions), and has very smooth action. Wind noise is well-muted, but some noticeable road noise from the economy-oriented tires comes through, especially on coarse road surfaces....that may (?) be due to the thin sheet metal and lack of body/wheel-well insulation. Ride comfort is fairly smooth (smoother, IMO, than the regular Prius), but sharp bumps can be felt and heard. Braking action, like that on some other hybrids, is not linear in the pedal-feel. The regenerative-braking system, which uses the electric-motor in reverse as a generator to help recharge the battery-pack on deceleration and braking, definitely affects the pedal-action. There is a small amount of free-play in the pedal, then a slight increase in braking-action, then, as you keep pressing, a rapid increase in deceleration. It is difficult to brake smoothly and consistantly, though you get a little more used to it after several minutes. Fortunately, my big size-15 clod-hopper clown-shoes didn't have much of a problem hanging up on the bottom or edge of the brake pedal when going from gas to brake....a problem on some vehicles.
THE VERDICT:
I just don't understand the continuing fascination with the Prius from celebrities, college-professors, librarians, environmentalists, and all the others who seem to think that it's the poster-boy of the modern automotive world. Consumer Reports (a magazine that I usually, but not always, agree with) likes it, too. Yes, it has a well-engineered, refined, and efficient hybrid drivetrain......but all Toyota/Lexus hybrids do. Yes, it has a good reliability record.....but so do a lot of other vehicles. Yes, it was the first American-market 4-door hybrid, and far more useful than its first competitor, the 2000 Honda insight. But time doesn't stand still, and a number of other vehicles have also come along that offer great gas-mileage, good reliability, and reasonable prices. Small VW diesels, for instance, get comparable (or almost comparable) fuel-mileage with less mechnical/electrical complexity, though their electrical systems are not always reliable. Newer compact and sub-compact cars like the Hyundai Accent/Elantra, Kia Rio, Ford Focus/Fiesta, and others can achieve 40 MPG on the highway, again with less complexity and significantly lower selling-prices. Honda's own Insight offers more-or-less comparable mileage to the Prius v (but not the regular Prius) at a substantially lower price, but of course, is more cramped and less-refined mechanically/electrically. And the Insight, IMO, has a better-quality (though plasticky) interior than the regular Prius (but not that of the Prius v). And the Civic Hybrid, while also lacking some mechanical/electrical refinement, solves the cramped-interior problem of the Insight.
So, my point in bringing all this up is that I just don't consider the Prius a halo-car. The well-done hybrid drivetrain, IMO, does not necessarily overcome what, IMO, are a number of other deficiencies in its design and construction. I respect other viewpoints to the contrary (and I know there are plenty of contrasting viewpoints, even in CL). But I was asked for my opinion of the car, and I'm going to call it as I see it, just as I have done in the past with other Prius models. And, BTW, I actually had a rather high opinion of the last, second-generation Prius. Although its Roly-Poly handling was sub-par, it had a smooth silky ride, good interior materials, and solid sheet metal. I thought that, because of weight and cost-cutting, the overall quality of third-generation models sank significantly, despite the better mileage (up to 51 MPG with the regular Prius).
But I am only one auto reviewer out of many, and though I stick with my own findings, I respect the opinions of others. This is not a car that I would buy with money out of my own pocket, but others who see it and drive it may think or decide otherwise. And there is no denying the car's cult-like following....it does satisfy its share of owners. So, for those of you who agree with me, fine. For those of you who don't, and if you like the car, then go for it. But if you do decide to shop for one, be careful at the dealerships. There is a good chance that the salespeople will try and get all they can out of you....even more so than usual, because there ARE peole who love this car enough to pay more than list-price to take one home.
And, as always.....Happy car-shopping.
MM
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-26-11 at 09:59 AM.
11-25-11, 09:30 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I assume you meant this new v wagon-version. I can't imagine ANY version of the Prius not selling...the whole line has just too much of a cult-following. We may not see a huge number of sales for the upcoming Plug-in model, but that is simply because Toyota will have only limited-production of them....they are available only on a long waiting-list, with a deposit, but the demand is there.
BTW, a vehicle actually closer to your conception of a mini-minivan is the Mazda5. Unlike the Prius v, it has 3 rows of two seats each.
11-26-11, 06:33 AM
#6
Recovering Lexus Addict
Great review, Mike. Having owned a 3rd generation regular Prius for about 3 months (2011 Prius Two), let me add my 2 cents:
- The Prius is a good, thought not great, mid-size car that gets between 40 and 60 MPG. If you drive like a rally driver (LOL - in a Prius?) you're still going to get about 40 MPG. If you employ some hypermiling techniques and don't drive most of your miles at or above 70 MPH, you'll get about 60 MPG. I drive about 80% open freeway driving at or just above 70 MPH and average a bit below 50 MPG.
- Unlike most hybrids, the split back seat folds down and leave you a fairly large and flat cargo area.
- The current generation Prius has a larger 1.8L engine and now has a 0-60 time under 10 seconds. It's faster than my 07 Subaru Outback was, but still won't win drag races. The previous generation Prii and heavier Prius V that Mike reviewed have slower 0-60 times.
- The Prius is not sporty. It has a fairly smooth ride, though rather noisy due to lack of heavy insulation. (Rain on the roof is especially loud.) The 17" wheels on the highest trim level Five regular Prius supposedly improve handling, but at a cost of up to 5 MPG compared to the narrower 15" wheels and tires of the more basic trims.
- One of the the things that make the Prius only a good, not great, car is the quality of the interior components. In trying to build a green car, Toyota used plastics that are supposed to be not-as-bad for the environment. In reality, the plastics simply feel cheap and scuff easily. In addition, the armrest for the door is a couple inches lower than the center armrest. I suspect this is due to the side airbag, but it is uncomfortable. Also, in 2012 all upper trim level Prii that used to get leather seats will now get the SofTex faux leather. (Last I checked, cows were green.)
- The braking is very effective, but takes a bit of getting used to. If you set the multi-function display to show the hybrid system indicator (HSI - which is a horizontal display showing power usage on the right and regenerative braking output on the left), you can maximize the economy and braking efficiency of the car. You basically have be hard on the brakes or under 7 MPH for the friction brakes to engage. It's a wonderfully efficient system that makes brake pads often last well over 100K miles and makes the friction-only brakes on my LS430 feel quaint in comparison. That said, because it is brake-by-wire with artificial pedal feedback, you have to relearn how to make smooth stops that don't jerk at the end. Also, if the wheels slip while in regenerative braking, there's a moment when it seems like there are no brakes until the friction brakes kick in.
- There is no tach, unless you install a scangage setup. However, a tach has very little meaning in the hybrid drivetrain with two electric motors and a gas engine (ICE in Prius parlance) generating torque. The HSI display indicates the amount of relative power you're generating so you can adjust your right foot accordingly. The display you usually see in pictures with a cartoon of the car moving with power flowing from the different motors and charging or using power from the battery is useless except for entertainment.
- The Prius shiftless transmission should not be confused with the often dodgy belt-and-pulley CVT setups. The Prius utilizes a planetary gear setup with each motor driving a different gear or carrier. One electric motor directly propels the car forward or backwards (by running in reverse). The other electric motor runs in forward at low speeds and reverse at higher speeds. The ICE can only propel the car in a forward direction and/or generate electricity.
- The small, out-of-round steering wheel and center mounted instruments are a common complaint of reviews. However, they actually work very well. I can adjust the steering wheel to any position I desire and the top doesn't obstruct the view of my gages and the flat bottom doesn't interfere with my legs when entering / exiting the car. The centered position of the gages actually makes for a more efficient eye path when checking your mirrors as they are now under the rearview mirror.
- A number of owners have reported an intermittent issue with the internal combustion engine starting and running very roughly. Apparently, this is caused by not allowing the ICE to go through most of it's warmup process the last time it was started. An example would be if you moved the car around in your driveway using electric power and the ICE started just before you turned the car off. The next time you started the car, say the next day, the ICE would be very rough when starting. The apparent fix is to allow the ICE to run for a few minutes whenever it starts from a cold condition to prevent rough startup the next time you use the car.
- The Prius drivetrain is meant to be driven. Toyota puts a warning in the owners manual that you should drive the car at least every three weeks to keep the batteries charged. If you're going to put the car in storage or only use it seasonally, they suggest you consult with a dealer.
- There are a LOT of strong opinions of the Prius, mostly bad here in the midwest. One of my daughters, who likes the car, works in automotive marketing, and belongs to the gay community, jokingly commented to her sister that "Dad managed to buy a car that's more gay than his Subaru." I had a guy in a Dodge pickup drive towards me and from the time he recognized the car as a Prius was flipping me the bird out the window. People pull out in front of me all the time because they assume the car is only poking along. People also love to tail gate the car.
In summary, if you drive enough miles a year, or want a secure hedge against higher gas prices, the car makes good sense. There are other less expensive cars that, as Mike correctly observed, also get good mileage and would be cheaper overall to own. I bought the car because my wife's caregivers reported that they were having more troubles transferring her into the Subaru in her weakened state due to the lack of a window frame for her to grab onto. The Prius had good front seat access and room in the trunk area for a travel wheelchair. (We expected her to need to resume frequent cancer treatments this fall, but alas, she ended up passing away.) The car still fits my needs because for the past 10 years, I've averaged 33K miles per year on my combined vehicles. I suspect that mileage will go up as I'm now able to travel more. I also use it as my "pickup" with the seats folded and a stiff tarp to cover the whole cargo area up to the windows.
- The Prius is a good, thought not great, mid-size car that gets between 40 and 60 MPG. If you drive like a rally driver (LOL - in a Prius?) you're still going to get about 40 MPG. If you employ some hypermiling techniques and don't drive most of your miles at or above 70 MPH, you'll get about 60 MPG. I drive about 80% open freeway driving at or just above 70 MPH and average a bit below 50 MPG.
- Unlike most hybrids, the split back seat folds down and leave you a fairly large and flat cargo area.
- The current generation Prius has a larger 1.8L engine and now has a 0-60 time under 10 seconds. It's faster than my 07 Subaru Outback was, but still won't win drag races. The previous generation Prii and heavier Prius V that Mike reviewed have slower 0-60 times.
- The Prius is not sporty. It has a fairly smooth ride, though rather noisy due to lack of heavy insulation. (Rain on the roof is especially loud.) The 17" wheels on the highest trim level Five regular Prius supposedly improve handling, but at a cost of up to 5 MPG compared to the narrower 15" wheels and tires of the more basic trims.
- One of the the things that make the Prius only a good, not great, car is the quality of the interior components. In trying to build a green car, Toyota used plastics that are supposed to be not-as-bad for the environment. In reality, the plastics simply feel cheap and scuff easily. In addition, the armrest for the door is a couple inches lower than the center armrest. I suspect this is due to the side airbag, but it is uncomfortable. Also, in 2012 all upper trim level Prii that used to get leather seats will now get the SofTex faux leather. (Last I checked, cows were green.)
- The braking is very effective, but takes a bit of getting used to. If you set the multi-function display to show the hybrid system indicator (HSI - which is a horizontal display showing power usage on the right and regenerative braking output on the left), you can maximize the economy and braking efficiency of the car. You basically have be hard on the brakes or under 7 MPH for the friction brakes to engage. It's a wonderfully efficient system that makes brake pads often last well over 100K miles and makes the friction-only brakes on my LS430 feel quaint in comparison. That said, because it is brake-by-wire with artificial pedal feedback, you have to relearn how to make smooth stops that don't jerk at the end. Also, if the wheels slip while in regenerative braking, there's a moment when it seems like there are no brakes until the friction brakes kick in.
- There is no tach, unless you install a scangage setup. However, a tach has very little meaning in the hybrid drivetrain with two electric motors and a gas engine (ICE in Prius parlance) generating torque. The HSI display indicates the amount of relative power you're generating so you can adjust your right foot accordingly. The display you usually see in pictures with a cartoon of the car moving with power flowing from the different motors and charging or using power from the battery is useless except for entertainment.
- The Prius shiftless transmission should not be confused with the often dodgy belt-and-pulley CVT setups. The Prius utilizes a planetary gear setup with each motor driving a different gear or carrier. One electric motor directly propels the car forward or backwards (by running in reverse). The other electric motor runs in forward at low speeds and reverse at higher speeds. The ICE can only propel the car in a forward direction and/or generate electricity.
- The small, out-of-round steering wheel and center mounted instruments are a common complaint of reviews. However, they actually work very well. I can adjust the steering wheel to any position I desire and the top doesn't obstruct the view of my gages and the flat bottom doesn't interfere with my legs when entering / exiting the car. The centered position of the gages actually makes for a more efficient eye path when checking your mirrors as they are now under the rearview mirror.
- A number of owners have reported an intermittent issue with the internal combustion engine starting and running very roughly. Apparently, this is caused by not allowing the ICE to go through most of it's warmup process the last time it was started. An example would be if you moved the car around in your driveway using electric power and the ICE started just before you turned the car off. The next time you started the car, say the next day, the ICE would be very rough when starting. The apparent fix is to allow the ICE to run for a few minutes whenever it starts from a cold condition to prevent rough startup the next time you use the car.
- The Prius drivetrain is meant to be driven. Toyota puts a warning in the owners manual that you should drive the car at least every three weeks to keep the batteries charged. If you're going to put the car in storage or only use it seasonally, they suggest you consult with a dealer.
- There are a LOT of strong opinions of the Prius, mostly bad here in the midwest. One of my daughters, who likes the car, works in automotive marketing, and belongs to the gay community, jokingly commented to her sister that "Dad managed to buy a car that's more gay than his Subaru." I had a guy in a Dodge pickup drive towards me and from the time he recognized the car as a Prius was flipping me the bird out the window. People pull out in front of me all the time because they assume the car is only poking along. People also love to tail gate the car.
In summary, if you drive enough miles a year, or want a secure hedge against higher gas prices, the car makes good sense. There are other less expensive cars that, as Mike correctly observed, also get good mileage and would be cheaper overall to own. I bought the car because my wife's caregivers reported that they were having more troubles transferring her into the Subaru in her weakened state due to the lack of a window frame for her to grab onto. The Prius had good front seat access and room in the trunk area for a travel wheelchair. (We expected her to need to resume frequent cancer treatments this fall, but alas, she ended up passing away.) The car still fits my needs because for the past 10 years, I've averaged 33K miles per year on my combined vehicles. I suspect that mileage will go up as I'm now able to travel more. I also use it as my "pickup" with the seats folded and a stiff tarp to cover the whole cargo area up to the windows.
Last edited by caddyowner; 11-26-11 at 09:24 AM.
11-26-11, 06:47 AM
#7
Pole Position
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Thanks for the review MM. 
I considered one of these before I bought my Camry, but I realized to get it to how i wanted would make it over $30,000 =( And since there was no way I was going to drop $30k + on something thats not a Lexus, I passed.
I considered one of these before I bought my Camry, but I realized to get it to how i wanted would make it over $30,000 =( And since there was no way I was going to drop $30k + on something thats not a Lexus, I passed.
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11-26-11, 08:24 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Although I would like to see the V take off and do well, I just don't see a good enough package and most importantly "value" for the V to do well.
Time will tell I guess.
11-26-11, 08:43 AM
#9
Dysfunctional Veteran
This is why I simply think the V will not sell. The closest thing in the Toyota line up that matches the V for size and space is the Venza. For the same money you get so much more car, space, AWD, and much better performance.
Although I would like to see the V take off and do well, I just don't see a good enough package and most importantly "value" for the V to do well.
Time will tell I guess.
Although I would like to see the V take off and do well, I just don't see a good enough package and most importantly "value" for the V to do well.
Time will tell I guess.
11-26-11, 08:53 AM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
As always, great review and thanks mmarshall!
Sure had to wait long enough for the Prius v. It seemed to be one of the new Japanese-nameplate models delayed this year by the big earthquake/tsunami last March.
11-26-11, 08:55 AM
#11
This is why I simply think the V will not sell. The closest thing in the Toyota line up that matches the V for size and space is the Venza. For the same money you get so much more car, space, AWD, and much better performance.
Although I would like to see the V take off and do well, I just don't see a good enough package and most importantly "value" for the V to do well.
Time will tell I guess.
Although I would like to see the V take off and do well, I just don't see a good enough package and most importantly "value" for the V to do well.
Time will tell I guess.
ehm.
11-26-11, 09:03 AM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
That was quite a 2 cents. I might let you do the next review. 
Actually, I agree with most of what you say here. But I'm still not sold on the Kiddie-Car steering wheel, the blank dash in front of the driver, and the center-mounted gauges/displays. Driver-friendly arguments aside, it is simply a cheap and simple way for automakers to do both left and right-hand drive versions for different markets.
Having owned a 3rd generation regular Prius for about 3 months (2011 Prius Two), let me add my 2 cents:
- The Prius is a good, thought not great, mid-size car that gets between 40 and 60 MPG. If you drive like a rally driver (LOL - in a Prius?) you're still going to get about 40 MPG. If you employ some hypermiling techniques and don't drive most of your miles at or above 70 MPH, you'll get about 60 MPG. I drive about 80% open freeway driving at or just above 70 MPH and average a bit below 50 MPG.
- Unlike most hybrids, the split back seat folds down and leave you a fairly large and flat cargo area.
- The current generation Prius has a larger 1.8L engine and now has a 0-60 time under 10 seconds. It's faster than my 07 Subaru Outback was, but still won't win drag races. The previous generation Prii and heavier Prius V that Mike reviewed have slower 0-60 times.
- The Prius is not sporty. It has a fairly smooth ride, though rather noisy due to lack of heavy insulation. (Rain on the roof is especially loud.) The 17" wheels on the highest trim level Five regular Prius supposedly improve handling, but at a cost of up to 5 MPG compared to the narrower 15" wheels and tires of the more basic trims.
- One of the the things that make the Prius only a good, not great, car is the quality of the interior components. In trying to build a green car, Toyota used plastics that are supposed to be not-as-bad for the environment. In reality, the plastics simply feel cheap and scuff easily. In addition, the armrest for the door is a couple inches lower than the center armrest. I suspect this is due to the side airbag, but it is uncomfortable. Also, in 2012 all upper trim level Prii that used to get leather seats will now get the SofTex faux leather. (Last I checked, cows were green.)
- The braking is very effective, but takes a bit of getting used to. If you set the multi-function display to show the hybrid system indicator (HSI - which is a horizontal display showing power usage on the right and regenerative braking output on the left), you can maximize the economy and braking efficiency of the car. You basically have be hard on the brakes or under 7 MPH for the friction brakes to engage. It's a wonderfully efficient system that makes brake pads often last well over 100K miles and makes the friction-only brakes on my LS430 feel quaint in comparison. That said, because it is brake-by-wire with artificial pedal feedback, you have to relearn how to make smooth stops that don't jerk at the end. Also, if the wheels slip while in regenerative braking, there's a moment when it seems like there are no brakes until the friction brakes kick in.
- There is no tach, unless you install a scangage setup. However, a tach has very little meaning in the hybrid drivetrain with two electric motors and a gas engine (ICE in Prius parlance) generating torque. The HSI display indicates the amount of relative power you're generating so you can adjust your right foot accordingly. The display you usually see in pictures with a cartoon of the car moving with power flowing from the different motors and charging or using power from the battery is useless except for entertainment.
- The Prius shiftless transmission should not be confused with the often dodgy belt-and-pulley CVT setups. The Prius utilizes a planetary gear setup with each motor driving a different gear or carrier. One electric motor directly propels the car forward or backwards (by running in reverse). The other electric motor runs in forward at low speeds and reverse at higher speeds. The ICE can only propel the car in a forward direction and/or generate electricity.
- The small, out-of-round steering wheel and center mounted instruments are a common complaint of reviews. However, they actually work very well. I can adjust the steering wheel to any position I desire and the top doesn't obstruct the view of my gages and the flat bottom doesn't interfere with my legs when entering / exiting the car. The centered position of the gages actually makes for a more efficient eye path when checking your mirrors as they are now under the rearview mirror.
- A number of owners have reported an intermittent issue with the internal combustion engine starting and running very roughly. Apparently, this is caused by not allowing the ICE to go through most of it's warmup process the last time it was started. An example would be if you moved the car around in your driveway using electric power and the ICE started just before you turned the car off. The next time you started the car, say the next day, the ICE would be very rough when starting. The apparent fix is to allow the ICE to run for a few minutes whenever it starts from a cold condition to prevent rough startup the next time you use the car.
- The Prius drivetrain is meant to be driven. Toyota puts a warning in the owners manual that you should drive the car at least every three weeks to keep the batteries charged. If you're going to put the car in storage or only use it seasonally, they suggest you consult with a dealer.
- There are a LOT of strong opinions of the Prius, mostly bad here in the midwest. One of my daughters, who likes the car and works in automotive marketing, jokingly commented to her sister that "Dad managed to buy a car that's more gay than his Subaru." I had a guy in a Dodge pickup drive towards me and from the time he recognized the car as a Prius was flipping me the bird out the window. People pull out in front of me all the time because they assume the car is only poking along. People also love to tail gate the car.
In summary, if you drive enough miles a year, or want a secure hedge against higher gas prices, the car makes good sense. There are other less expensive cars that, as Mike correctly observed, also get good mileage and would be cheaper overall to own. I bought the car because my wife's caregivers reported that they were having more troubles transferring her into the Subaru in her weakened state due to the lack of a window frame for her to grab onto. The Prius had good front seat access and room in the trunk area for a travel wheelchair. (We expected her to need to resume frequent cancer treatments this fall, but alas, she ended up passing away.) The car still fits my needs because for the past 10 years, I've averaged 33K miles per year on my combined vehicles. I suspect that mileage will go up as I'm now able to travel more. I also use it as my "pickup" with the seats folded and a stiff tarp to cover the whole cargo area up to the windows.
- The Prius is a good, thought not great, mid-size car that gets between 40 and 60 MPG. If you drive like a rally driver (LOL - in a Prius?) you're still going to get about 40 MPG. If you employ some hypermiling techniques and don't drive most of your miles at or above 70 MPH, you'll get about 60 MPG. I drive about 80% open freeway driving at or just above 70 MPH and average a bit below 50 MPG.
- Unlike most hybrids, the split back seat folds down and leave you a fairly large and flat cargo area.
- The current generation Prius has a larger 1.8L engine and now has a 0-60 time under 10 seconds. It's faster than my 07 Subaru Outback was, but still won't win drag races. The previous generation Prii and heavier Prius V that Mike reviewed have slower 0-60 times.
- The Prius is not sporty. It has a fairly smooth ride, though rather noisy due to lack of heavy insulation. (Rain on the roof is especially loud.) The 17" wheels on the highest trim level Five regular Prius supposedly improve handling, but at a cost of up to 5 MPG compared to the narrower 15" wheels and tires of the more basic trims.
- One of the the things that make the Prius only a good, not great, car is the quality of the interior components. In trying to build a green car, Toyota used plastics that are supposed to be not-as-bad for the environment. In reality, the plastics simply feel cheap and scuff easily. In addition, the armrest for the door is a couple inches lower than the center armrest. I suspect this is due to the side airbag, but it is uncomfortable. Also, in 2012 all upper trim level Prii that used to get leather seats will now get the SofTex faux leather. (Last I checked, cows were green.)
- The braking is very effective, but takes a bit of getting used to. If you set the multi-function display to show the hybrid system indicator (HSI - which is a horizontal display showing power usage on the right and regenerative braking output on the left), you can maximize the economy and braking efficiency of the car. You basically have be hard on the brakes or under 7 MPH for the friction brakes to engage. It's a wonderfully efficient system that makes brake pads often last well over 100K miles and makes the friction-only brakes on my LS430 feel quaint in comparison. That said, because it is brake-by-wire with artificial pedal feedback, you have to relearn how to make smooth stops that don't jerk at the end. Also, if the wheels slip while in regenerative braking, there's a moment when it seems like there are no brakes until the friction brakes kick in.
- There is no tach, unless you install a scangage setup. However, a tach has very little meaning in the hybrid drivetrain with two electric motors and a gas engine (ICE in Prius parlance) generating torque. The HSI display indicates the amount of relative power you're generating so you can adjust your right foot accordingly. The display you usually see in pictures with a cartoon of the car moving with power flowing from the different motors and charging or using power from the battery is useless except for entertainment.
- The Prius shiftless transmission should not be confused with the often dodgy belt-and-pulley CVT setups. The Prius utilizes a planetary gear setup with each motor driving a different gear or carrier. One electric motor directly propels the car forward or backwards (by running in reverse). The other electric motor runs in forward at low speeds and reverse at higher speeds. The ICE can only propel the car in a forward direction and/or generate electricity.
- The small, out-of-round steering wheel and center mounted instruments are a common complaint of reviews. However, they actually work very well. I can adjust the steering wheel to any position I desire and the top doesn't obstruct the view of my gages and the flat bottom doesn't interfere with my legs when entering / exiting the car. The centered position of the gages actually makes for a more efficient eye path when checking your mirrors as they are now under the rearview mirror.
- A number of owners have reported an intermittent issue with the internal combustion engine starting and running very roughly. Apparently, this is caused by not allowing the ICE to go through most of it's warmup process the last time it was started. An example would be if you moved the car around in your driveway using electric power and the ICE started just before you turned the car off. The next time you started the car, say the next day, the ICE would be very rough when starting. The apparent fix is to allow the ICE to run for a few minutes whenever it starts from a cold condition to prevent rough startup the next time you use the car.
- The Prius drivetrain is meant to be driven. Toyota puts a warning in the owners manual that you should drive the car at least every three weeks to keep the batteries charged. If you're going to put the car in storage or only use it seasonally, they suggest you consult with a dealer.
- There are a LOT of strong opinions of the Prius, mostly bad here in the midwest. One of my daughters, who likes the car and works in automotive marketing, jokingly commented to her sister that "Dad managed to buy a car that's more gay than his Subaru." I had a guy in a Dodge pickup drive towards me and from the time he recognized the car as a Prius was flipping me the bird out the window. People pull out in front of me all the time because they assume the car is only poking along. People also love to tail gate the car.
In summary, if you drive enough miles a year, or want a secure hedge against higher gas prices, the car makes good sense. There are other less expensive cars that, as Mike correctly observed, also get good mileage and would be cheaper overall to own. I bought the car because my wife's caregivers reported that they were having more troubles transferring her into the Subaru in her weakened state due to the lack of a window frame for her to grab onto. The Prius had good front seat access and room in the trunk area for a travel wheelchair. (We expected her to need to resume frequent cancer treatments this fall, but alas, she ended up passing away.) The car still fits my needs because for the past 10 years, I've averaged 33K miles per year on my combined vehicles. I suspect that mileage will go up as I'm now able to travel more. I also use it as my "pickup" with the seats folded and a stiff tarp to cover the whole cargo area up to the windows.
Actually, I agree with most of what you say here. But I'm still not sold on the Kiddie-Car steering wheel, the blank dash in front of the driver, and the center-mounted gauges/displays. Driver-friendly arguments aside, it is simply a cheap and simple way for automakers to do both left and right-hand drive versions for different markets.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-26-11 at 09:22 AM.
11-26-11, 09:10 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Sure...anytime. Glad it helped.
I know it's a tough economy, and a lot of people don't have excess dollars to spend on a car, but 30K, statistically, is actually not a lot of money for a car nowadays. The average price of all American-market new vehicles these days is just short of 30K. A lot of subcompacts, with options, are going for 20K....some, like Mini, substantially more.
I considered one of these before I bought my Camry, but I realized to get it to how i wanted would make it over $30,000 =( And since there was no way I was going to drop $30k + on something thats not a Lexus, I passed.
11-26-11, 09:16 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
In the American market, the Matrix hatchback is probably be a little closer in size to the Prius v than the Venza. Overseas, the Corolla 5-door hatchback is offered, but not in the U.S.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-26-11 at 10:01 AM.
11-26-11, 09:46 AM
#15
they at least should tweak that powertrain a bit to accommodate the added weight of the V. the original Prius is slow enough, can't imagine how V performs on the road. but i guess people shopping for this car don't really care about speed. if i need a fuel efficient car with lots of room, i'd go with Jetta TDI wagon.