Ty419

Most of the articles about Lexus struggling focus solely on the cars. They seem to overlook the fact that the dealer network used to be the best in the industry and now it is mediocre at best. They've completely lost control of their after-sale customer relations and that was one of their huge advantages a decade ago. If they want to focus on cars, go ahead, but that isn't the real problem. They are really leaving the door open for another luxury brand to capitalize hugely on what used to be their best competitive advantage.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lol at some point i guess it's just best for me to not say much.

you know, to certain extend the article is not without merit. i might not agree fully with the article, but i do see lexus losing quite a lot of ground over the years. people here talk about how people leaving other brands for lexus, but i have also seen quite a lot of people leaving lexus for others too.

one thing for sure, lexus' numbers and their position is largely on the es and rx. nothing wrong on that, and i give them a lot of credit for opening the rx market, fantastic. but when it comes to real luxury, and gets up the "expensive" chain, i see lexus losing quite a bit in the mid-size and full-size luxury. i think when it comes to defining a luxury brand, the prestige level, that's quite important.

and all these when the competitors are fiercely catching up (and sometimes surprising) on features, quality, and reliability. it used to be the case that lexus were years ahead on navigation system. that's no longer the case. same with interior details.

i fully agree that lexus has the ability to do what's "needed" (who to define that anyway), but are they going to do it? i see some good initial work on the 4gs. but then i see some big ***** dropped

rominl

iTrader: (4)

haha one thing i will say though is i will buy lexus if they are good and make sense. but i won't buy lexus just coz' it's lexus. i don't give in to a "brand" looking at the current lexus full lineup? only cars that interest me is lfa, ls600hl, and lx570. for all the other cars, i find better alternatives

LexFather

You would think Lexus was one of the other Tier 2/3 luxury brands the way this is written. Why no mention of the other Germans depending on the A4 or the 3 series? Why no mention of Audi's struggles here for 20 years? They are picking and choosing to deliberately crap on Lexus. The LFA is meaningless? Is the writer 3 years old?

Lexus opportunities are well documented and the recall mess/ quality going down didn't help as the competition improved. They don't state that Lexus quality seems to have gotten back on track looking at recent results, sales are still 3rd after an 11 year run at number 1. Lexus still ranks highly with customer loyalty and prestige. The sky is not falling.

The article fails to realize that the German brands were mostly sold in Germany, then Europe their first few decades on life. They were not sold worldwide initially. Lexus being sold worldwide in 20 years is actually a huge accomplishment since it took the Germans 50+ years to do it (true not equal time periods but don't crap one on and not bring that other point up).

Its funny when I was younger I thought these magazines knew what they were talking about but I rarely read them now as its apparent the people writing these articles have little experience/history outside of google and autoblog.

And it is a repost/re-write of an article/interview done maybe 1/2 months ago. Of course this will get Lexus haters all riled up

DustinV

Actually that is not quite true.

With the development of the modern automobile in 1886, the European brands immediately began selling their products as far as the United States and Japan largely because there was a demand for this new invention amongst the elite classes in those nations. In particular this applies to brands like Panhard, Peugeot, Benz, Daimler and Delahaye to name a few, whose products were certainly popular by the standards of the day in markets outside of Europe.

But you're right - it was a different time then. Back then the market for cars was small, barely existent. Today the demand for cars is huge since virtually everyone can afford one - literally.

LexFather

Japan didn't even have a car company so there wasn't anything else to buy. Their (German) exports to the USA were largely irrelevant as American companies dominated here. Don't try to make it seem as if they had success instantly in markets where there was existing auto brands.

Shall we bring up BMW almost being bought by Mercedes Benz as they struggled for quite sometime and almost went under? I would love to see MT do an article on that. Every brand has had its opportunities. We all know Audi was almost pulled out of America as it struggled badly until very recently.

The sky isn't falling for Lexus. For whatever reason(s) people love to beat up this brand that went against all odds and continues to do so with mostly SUCCESS.

If anything the writer should maybe parallel when a (all) the German brands struggled, how they overcame it (or didn't) and what Lexus could learn from it. That would be a great read for people. This is just another awful excuse for a write-up that is read by people that already hate Lexus and backs up irregular thinking about the brand.

spwolf

personally, CTh............. but thats because I am car nut and i want latest and greatest.
And Lexus is going to get all their models replaced within 24 months. It is just the way it goes.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Yep, I only like the LS and LX570 in their lineup right now, and LS is due redesign in couple years so I am looking forward for it.

One the other hand, aren't most BMW/Benz are leased, while most Lexus are bought? The lease deal is one thing, but IMO, Germans cars are to be leased so it can be returned when the warranty is up, while Lexus being bought since people plan to keep it as long as they can.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yes, i think there was a study about that. more bmw and mb are leased compared to lexus, but i was a bit surprised that the word "most" actually didn't apply. i put it as higher percentage.

from a brand ownership point of view, yup i can see how lexus is stronger. and especially from a financial point of view i think it's stronger to have people buying your car than leasing. i was a strong believer on that. but over the years i started to think, what's the effect of that in the end? a lot of lease returns. residual values, etc... but is it like no one is buying used / returned bmw and mb? nop, they are still being bought and driven day in day out.

on the other hand, does buying a luxury car makes it more "bling bling" than leasing one? that's also two folds and i don't think there is a winner. it creates more posers trying to test the limit and lease as much as they can. but at the same time a lot of the really rich, they change cars every 2-3 yrs anyway, and they love bmw / mb because they are so much "cheaper" than leasing lexus.

so after weighing all, does leasing vs buying make that much of a difference on luxury brands? possible, and i think it does. but to what extend? i am not sure if it's too significant.

JessePS

Someone smoking the wrong **** or isn't taking their meds anymore, over there at MT. This is one reason I stopped reading automotive magazines, all the bias in the articles. Why can't there be one source that isn't biased and is just neutral between the whole BMW vs. MB. vs Lexus rivalry.

cino

iTrader: (1)

IS-F is soft? Am I hearing it wrong?

Fizzboy7

Must have been a slow day at Motor Trend. Lexus has consistently done well with the IS, ES, and RX models, selling masses of them. How convenient to leave those examples out of the equation. And what about the LFA and new CTh? Those models don't exactly linger on dealers lots, if they can even be found.

For the uneducated, such as Angus, who apparently doesn't follow current Lexus trends, it's easy to nitpick and create hype. Yellow journalism at it's finest.

Kostamojen

I agree with the article. The only reason I'm even here is cause of the CT (a cool looking hybrid thats actually fun to drive? Thats the right direction to be heading).

The current IS pissed me off when it came out. The first-gen IS was my fav entry level lux sedan, but they made it bloated and boring. The GS, not something I would ever look at, nor the rest of the lineup, too many uninspiring automobiles. The LFA is a different story, again shows the right direction to go with something so unique.

IMO, Lexus took on too many of the qualities (boring appliances) of the main brand including their problems (recalls) but it does look to be headed the right direction now.
It IS soft... Sorry to burst some bubbles, but its not as great as it should be.

Och

iTrader: (3)

^

All cars from all manufacturers are getting bloated and big, lets not single Lexus out. Nobody wants cramped cars with no suspension. How about 4GS that weights far less and current 5 series?

The first gen IS was a good car in its own right, but certainly not a very practical one, and nobody bought it. The current IS is damn near perfect, if only they made a coupe to complete the line up.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

If lexus is failing, what are brands like acura, infiniti, volvo, and others like it. But i cans see where this article is going, in a way, cause recently my father has started to look elsewhere for a new car.