Mr. Burns

LS, IS and GS used to sell very well. When launched the current LS was the second best selling flagship luxury car in the world, heck even last year it outsold all of Jaguar. When launched the current GS was moving 30k units per year and the IS was rivaling the C-class. Now, not so much, and an old lineup facing an all new German competition as well as Jaguar and Porsche is largely to blame.

LS is facing brand new A8 and 7 series with new S-class on the way
GS is facing brand new A6, 5 series and E-class
IS is facing newer C-class and A4, as well as a brand new 3 series on the way

These models are all 5-6 years old, naturally they are not going to be as desirable as the brand new Audis and BMWs you're comparing them to. Lexus' newer models are lower end, mainly the RX and CT, which have been getting all the spotlight. You can bet the focus will shift towards the more premium RWD models as they come out. Meanwhile:



Which is outselling all the cars in its segment combined.

BTW even the ES is not selling amazingly well these days, the RX which is a much newer model is the one selling like hot cakes. ES sales are on par with the IS. The GX being V8 only is also selling quite well, 2010 sales were probably in line with the V8 versions of the X5 and ML and over twice as much as the Q7.

The 4GS megathread is packed with info on the new GS and its tech, if you don't feel like wading through it then it's better to wait a few more days until the car is launched. It will be on an all new platform though and the chassis is supposed to be very light, high tech and modern. Inside you've got the huge nav screen with remote touch, highly adjustable and ventilated seats, leather stitched dash and different interior colors, various sport modes, night vision, HUD etc... It will not fall short there. Powertrains are still not entirely clear, but brand new ones should follow a year or so after launch as I mentioned before. This is how Lexus usually does it.

I think come Thursday it should be clear whether Lexus will continue to lose momentum or if these new models will start to turn things around.

spwolf

lol... How can you diss Lexus for "camry based" cars, when most cars that Audi sells are FWD models. A6 is an FWD car...

spwolf

so you are disappointing by Lexus reliability, which is still #1 worldwide, so you buy BMW, which is considerably less reliable brand, except that they dont admit their problems because it is expected to have issues when you buy an BMW, and by admission of many who own one, you dont buy BMW, you lease it.

I have worked in car industry for 7 years, every problem that Toyota ever had passed through my hands. I think I know a lot more about Toyota problems than you do.

Toyoda should be thanked for his honest approach, which is very Japanese. On the other hand, western companies like to hide their problems under the rug, that doesnt make them problem free.

Even in Germany, Toyota outscores all of the German brands by reliability. And German mags are not known for being nice to foreign companies.

I dont know what exactly is "silly" about reliability reports. They very much reflect what you read on internet forums too.

Are you going to keep your M3 for 5-7 years? I dont think so.
Would you keep IS-F for 5-7 years?

So what exactly are we talking about?

G Star

iTrader: (2)

wow...seriously? Are we just pulling things out of our butts now?

Audi and Jaguar more prestigious than Lexus? since when?

rocks

There is a lot of mis-info being purported here, oh, how I am tired of hearing how people only lease BMW's or how nobody with half a brain owns one past the warranty period. All bullocks, as far as I am concerned, even with the little quirks found in some bimmers, the cars last as long as any Lexus. You Lexus boys have no clue what you're talking about about. Go read the M3Forum and see all the high mileage E46 M3's people are still buying everyday that are stilling running, most averaging 150k miles. Go read E46fanatics, several Non-M owners there with cars over 200k and stilling running strong, heck there is one guy in SFL with a 99 323i already exceeded 300k miles. I myself have a 2003 E46 sedan that is at 127k miles and still runs like a champ, the only components that I have changed on my car is clutch and suspension components...In all the years that I have own this car it has never broken down on me and I travel frequently between Miami and Atlanta. Not only that, I drive it pretty hard and to this day no problem, well my radio failed recently....


Let's just stick to what you guys know Lexus, not BMW's, as far as I am concerned, Lexus gets just slightly better in reliability than BMW. I can't speak about Mercedes because I have owned one. I have owned 3 BMW's since 2003. I know the 3 series, specifically the E46 and E36, both M and non M's. The IS300 is no more reliable than the E46, that is a fact. JD power ratings are bullocks and should never be taken as gospel as you folks here seem to do. The only reason why I'm here is because I have no desire to jump on the BMW turbo bandwagon which they're doing with all their cars. So now I am patiently waiting to see what engines will be offered with the 4GS and if they are not to my satisfaction, I will settle for an e92 M3 or an ISF.

Alucard

Let's start arguing about cupholders.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

what i find funniest is how you just keep on comparing lexus to say bmw and think it's all ok. by your definition, all these other brands are so inferior and lexus being better than them, then it's all good? that's sad at the very best. it's like having bunch of old burgers that's been left alone for weeks, you pick the one that's been on the shelf for only a week and say that's a good one.

how about trying to compare toyota's own work between now and 8-9 years ago and see the decline from there? but then again if what you said is how you work in the industry the past 7 years, maybe that explains how toyota's quality issue is what it is now.

let me make it clear for you. see, not once did i ever say toyota products are less reliable and worse quality than any other brands. i have ONLY been saying that toyota products are nothing like they were in the early 2000s anymore. that's it. it's you who have been trying to put words into my mouth, so i don't know what you are talking about. toyota's success has mostly been about their superior quality and reliability, i believe most will agree on that. so when people get toyota / lexus, they EXPECT certain level of product. and all i am saying is after their products in early 2000s, a lot of people have high expectations, and THUS some are disappointed by their products NOW.

forget about other brands, how about using yourself as a reference when you are already at the top? that's how i was taught at school.

oh, btw, over the first 3 years of ownership, my m3 actually has far less problems than my gs350, if you are ever so interested. what does that mean to me? absolutely nothing. but maybe a lot to you

LexFather

I have read this thread and some of these posts are so beyond horrid it is part of the reason I'm not posting. More anti-Lexus inflammatory remarks, many having nothing to do with the topic at hand. I am stunned by a lot of what I am reading.

My stance is clear, I've started multiple threads/posts for Lexus to add some coupes. Coupes done right cause emotion. Even the SC 430 which many hate, caused emotion and added style to the brand. Lexus needs more coupes.

As for something every man, woman, child can lust after, cough cough...






Yes there is a lot of mis-info, like this above post. Lexus boys have no clue? Did it occur to you with your 40 posts that many people here have vast experiences beyond just Lexus? Did it occur to you that your post comes off as inflammatory as I GUARANTEE if I was standing next to you there would be nothing like "Lexus boy" coming out of your mouth. Trust me, it occurred to me that your 40 posts does not equate to you not having auto experience but it does mean you have no experience on this forum.

Shall I bring up the fact BMW was broke, bankrupt and almost bought by Benz in the 1950s? I won't, though I just did. You see some of us "Lexus boys" know a little more than just reliability charts.

And when BMW makes something that can actually match the LFA, let me know.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i think the premise/subject of your post is flawed or at least, over-reaching. while you later go on to talk about '4 door coupes', the subject of your thread itself is wrong i believe, because as 1SICKLEX points out, the LFA is clearly a car many would lust for. it's absolutely incredible.

i have also seen 'young men' and women (to use your terms) WANT an IS or SC very very badly. i know the SC is gone for now, but regardless, it made its mark, and the IS and of course IS-F are still here.

the new GS will no doubt ignite some more excitement too.

now lexus doesn't have a slew of coupes or a '4 door coupe' yet, but that doesn't mean no one 'lusts' after what they do offer.

some are even nuts about hybrids and suvs

spwolf

But I dont agree with that at all - Lexus and Toyota's worst work was late 90's and early 2000's. By far.

That gave us ZZ and MZ engines, both with long term reliability issues.

These engines were designed mid to late 90's.

Today, we have ZR, KR, UR, and GR series engines, all top of the class when it comes to both performance and reliability.

Unlike MZ and ZZ series, you dont have 8 year warranty on these babies due to the issues.

So when it comes to mechanical quality, sorry - except for AD series engines, Toyota has built bullet proof mechanical parts in past 5-6 years.

Now with KD and AD, you have some issues, but then again so do all european manufacturers.

As to the other stuff - when it comes to interior quality - late 90's was hit and miss... 1st gen Yaris had a lot of interior quality issues, it had two small MMC's that were just for fixing rattles everywhere.

2002 Corolla despite what industry says, was significantly worse car than new 2007 Corolla when it comes to interior quality over 5 years. Top of the dash would separate from radio, in 50% of the cars. This is car designed late 90's, early 2000's. Rattles everywhere. New Corolla/Auris get crapped on by media for bad interior but in reality, they are so much better built and so less issues after 5 years, almost no rattles. Same goes for Rav4.2 and Rav4.3.

I can tell you a million these small examples since I had to work with them all.

Hey I am happy that Toyoda wants to build the best Toyota's ever, I am just saying that the fact he wants to do better does not mean that someone has over-did the Toyota, because they didnt. Just because BMW doesnt come out and say SORRY for all the crappy 335i and 535i engines, does not mean that somehow they are more reliable than Lexus.

I want Toyota to build even better cars... I want Lexus to be better than what they are. But I wont claim that somehow they are really bad just because most of their lineup is now 6 years old.

No, I would not buy 2011 GS... but is it because it is really awful car? Because Lexus missed the mark? No... it is because it is now oldest car in the class and I am guy that reads every car review and gets to drive many of them, I can not buy any car that was designed 7 years ago. I would not have bought 2005 GS either... Heck I would never buy Gen 2 because to me that wasnt competitive car in Europe.

spwolf

I think what they have been doing lately with CT200h, IS-F, IS F-Sport and LS Sport is very nice step forward for the brand.

I am looking forward to the new 4GS and baby SUV.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i agree.

and marketing the slug slow CT as a 'sporty' car was genius.

-J-P-L-

Toyota/Lexus is primarily interested in selling cars to live human beings, not internet enthusiasts. Most "exciting" cars sell in very low numbers.


LOL.

Lexus is at least #3 in prestige in the US (After MB and BMW).

What would you consider the $400,000 LFA or the $120K LS600hl? Economy luxury?

No other luxury brand can even compete with the LFA. Only exotic brands build competition for it. Enough said.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

that's pretty much where we agree to disagree. all your examples are toyota, i focused on lexus. i don't think anyone car argue about the 2jz and the uz engines. the new engines with bullet proof mechanical parts? well, qc says problem with valve springs. i never needed to have engines touched in my gs400, is300, and sc430.

and you gotta be kidding me if you say build quality of ls430 and sc430 are not superior to the current lineup. i haven't even seen 2 3gs radio units that fit the same. on all 2is, same thing, with gaps around the radio. the list goes on and on.

could be independent, but i know of 3 different individuals. they are not into cars, they had 00 rx300, 02 ls430, and 03 gs430. now they have 10 rx350, 07 ls460, and 08 gs350. they all commented to me that new lexus are so disappointing, louder, feels more flimsy, and prefer their previous cars instead. i made zero influence in what they say about their cars.

i never say any of these coz' lexus lineup is 6 yrs old now, i think that's stupid. ask members who have been long time here and they will tell you i started criticizing them on quality since 2006, when the current generation came out (when the cars were all so new)

rominl

iTrader: (4)

not sure if i would go that far. mb had the slr years ago and now they have the sls. if you count porsche has luxury brand, they had the gt years ago too. audi had the r8 a few years ago (arguably borderline exotic) and now they have the r8 v10

of course not to discredit the lfa, one hell of a car