Buying American cars vs Foreign cars.
03-26-11, 10:53 AM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
The Cadillac CTS is a good example. Derived from an GM German/Opel-basel Euro/World platform, much of its development and engineering was done in Germany......including the high-speed Nurburgring race track. But it is built at GM's Lansing, MI plant, and the money there goes to the workers and managers.
Chrysler's large cars (300, Charger and Challenger) use many Mercedes-Benz components.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-26-11 at 10:56 AM.
03-26-11, 12:58 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
I know the American cars have been getting much better but , like I have said in the past, its like an F student for years finally got a few B's and B+'s and I am supposed to believe the kid is going to Harvard. Not likely. I will stick with Lexus and if I go crazy maybe a German car.....not likely. The other thing is that in the circles I socialize in American cars are just weak. They get no respect or love. Even if i bought a CTSV my friends would say " pretty cool man.......hope it doesnt break down". Then in my eyes , every time that thing gives me an issues I will regret it and/or your friends and wife will just say "I told you so". I think a lot of this view point varies on age, where you live, and how much money you make.
In my mind its to each his own. I'm loving my LS460 for now
In my mind its to each his own. I'm loving my LS460 for now
03-26-11, 01:04 PM
#48
Boardroom Thug
I know the American cars have been getting much better but , like I have said in the past, its like an F student for years finally got a few B's and B+'s and I am supposed to believe the kid is going to Harvard. Not likely. I will stick with Lexus and if I go crazy maybe a German car.....not likely. The other thing is that in the circles I socialize in American cars are just weak. They get no respect or love. Even if i bought a CTSV my friends would say " pretty cool man.......hope it doesnt break down". Then in my eyes , every time that thing gives me an issues I will regret it and/or your friends and wife will just say "I told you so". I think a lot of this view point varies on age, where you live, and how much money you make.
In my mind its to each his own. I'm loving my LS460 for now
In my mind its to each his own. I'm loving my LS460 for now
Hell some part of me went to look at Land Rovers one day and thought the same thing, its not an American car issue...........
03-26-11, 01:18 PM
#49
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I'm not sure you (or them) are getting the point here. What you describe is (now) an outdated view of American-nameplate vehicles, and doesn't reflect today's reality. For a number of reasons (globalization being one of them), Ford, GM, and Chrysler are now starting to turn out some respectable vehicles, in comparison to the junk they built for decades. If some of these people in Michigan and down south, that you describe, still want to (artificially) live back in the days when Detroit did junk (and when Americans still bought that junk), then that is on them, not us.
Monkey see monkey do
03-26-11, 04:33 PM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
And, though not my first choices, I would, if I wanted, buy a number of American-badged vehicles today without a second thought, including the 2011 Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu, Buick LaCrosse, Jeep Grand Cherokee, and (maybe) the new Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300, though I haven't test-driven the Dodge or Chrysler yet. There are a number of impressive Detroit-badged vehicles today....and among those I listed.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-26-11 at 05:23 PM.
03-26-11, 04:47 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
Besides costing an arm and a leg, especially for the top-line Range-Rover, they are notoriously unreliable.
03-26-11, 05:00 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Even here, on CL, there were several people (I won't name names) who simply couldn't (or wouldn't) believe that Kia or Hyundai could make a respectable product, either, until they went and saw for themselves.
Even if i bought a CTSV my friends would say " pretty cool man.......hope it doesnt break down". Then in my eyes , every time that thing gives me an issues I will regret it and/or your friends and wife will just say "I told you so". I think a lot of this view point varies on age, where you live, and how much money you make.
In my mind its to each his own. I'm loving my LS460 for now
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-26-11 at 06:05 PM.
03-26-11, 05:10 PM
#53
Boardroom Thug
LOVE them, but in the end their junk......
03-26-11, 05:57 PM
#54
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http://editorial.autos.msn.com/lista...1813>1=22009
this is interesting to read about the Lincoln getting the JD Power top spot for reliability in 2011. Lexus came in second with Jaguar, Porsche and Toyota making the top 5.
The bottom are Chrysler, Dodge, Land Rover, Jeep and Mini.
That makes 3 Chrysler products all circling the drain. lol
this is interesting to read about the Lincoln getting the JD Power top spot for reliability in 2011. Lexus came in second with Jaguar, Porsche and Toyota making the top 5.
The bottom are Chrysler, Dodge, Land Rover, Jeep and Mini.
That makes 3 Chrysler products all circling the drain. lol
This survey is based on 2008's models after 3 years to really begin to gauge dependability.
Funny how many people still doubt American brand quality. Lincoln beating Lexus and still, even in this thread, people still say they wouldn't touch an American brand with a 10' pole.
Ford Fusion easily beat Camry and Accord in reliability after 3 years. That is shocking considering how bullet proof Camry and Accord are.
I'm waiting to see how well cars like the Fusion do after 10-15 years and 200-300+K on them. That's where Toyota and Honda shine and what interests me because I run my cars to high mileage. Certainly, 3 year reliability and 10 year reliability are two different things and unfortunately we have a while to wait. If Ford proves they can go the distance, I'll be on board. Interestingly though, the Fusion is built in Mexico while Camry and Accord are built in the US. Go figure.
03-26-11, 06:01 PM
#55
From the Detroit 3, I think that only the trucks and minivans can be considered to be "All American". But even then, in component content and location of assembly, they may be considered to be less American than the Toyota Camry. And the Chrysler minivans are now assembled in Canada.
Many of the "domestic" cars may be assembled in America but much of their development engineering (especially of the underlying platforms) was done in Asia or Europe.
GM now relies upon GM Korea (the former Daewoo) to develop its small cars (like the Cruze). (The Volt is based on the Cruze.) GM relies upon GM Europe for their mid-size car platforms (the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel in Germany). GM's full-size RWD platform (for the Camaro and new Chevrolet police cruiser) come from Holden in Australia. GM's Theta platform (for the mid-size crossover Chevy Equinox and GMC Terrain) was adapted from the Epsilon platform as was the Lambda platform (for the full-size crossover Chevy Traverse, Buick Enclave and GMC Acadia). The Buick Regal is a re-badged Opel Insignia. The Buick LaCrosse had much design input from the Chinese.
Ford's car platforms are also international. The new sub-compact Fiesta and compact Focus are European designs. The mid-size Fusion and MKZ are built on an adapted Mazda6 platform, as are the Edge and MKX. The Taurus and MKS are on adapted Volvo platforms, as are the Flex, MKT and Explorer. The next Fusion is supposed to be based on the European Ford Mondeo. The next Escape is likely based upon an European design also. Safety innovations seem to have come from Volvo. Off-road innovations came from Land Rover. (Ford took a lot from their former European Premium Automotive Group brands but gave them little in return.)
Chrysler's large cars (300, Charger and Challenger) use many Mercedes-Benz components. Chrysler's small cars (Caliber, Sebring/200, Avenger, Journey) use an adapted Mitsubishi platform.
Has car design and engineering expertise become centred in Western Europe (Germany) and East Asia (Korea, Japan and increasingly China) now?
Many of the "domestic" cars may be assembled in America but much of their development engineering (especially of the underlying platforms) was done in Asia or Europe.
GM now relies upon GM Korea (the former Daewoo) to develop its small cars (like the Cruze). (The Volt is based on the Cruze.) GM relies upon GM Europe for their mid-size car platforms (the Epsilon platform was developed by Opel in Germany). GM's full-size RWD platform (for the Camaro and new Chevrolet police cruiser) come from Holden in Australia. GM's Theta platform (for the mid-size crossover Chevy Equinox and GMC Terrain) was adapted from the Epsilon platform as was the Lambda platform (for the full-size crossover Chevy Traverse, Buick Enclave and GMC Acadia). The Buick Regal is a re-badged Opel Insignia. The Buick LaCrosse had much design input from the Chinese.
Ford's car platforms are also international. The new sub-compact Fiesta and compact Focus are European designs. The mid-size Fusion and MKZ are built on an adapted Mazda6 platform, as are the Edge and MKX. The Taurus and MKS are on adapted Volvo platforms, as are the Flex, MKT and Explorer. The next Fusion is supposed to be based on the European Ford Mondeo. The next Escape is likely based upon an European design also. Safety innovations seem to have come from Volvo. Off-road innovations came from Land Rover. (Ford took a lot from their former European Premium Automotive Group brands but gave them little in return.)
Chrysler's large cars (300, Charger and Challenger) use many Mercedes-Benz components. Chrysler's small cars (Caliber, Sebring/200, Avenger, Journey) use an adapted Mitsubishi platform.
Has car design and engineering expertise become centred in Western Europe (Germany) and East Asia (Korea, Japan and increasingly China) now?
03-26-11, 06:09 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Believe it or not, you could probably put the Toyota Tundra in that category, especially the larger 2Gen model. As was the case with Nissan's Titan (which is built in Canton, MS), the Tundra was designed pretty much for the American market, and Toyota even built an truck-engine assembly plant in San Antonio for it (TX, of course, being the arch-stereotype state for pickup trucks).
03-26-11, 06:33 PM
#57
Believe it or not, you could probably put the Toyota Tundra in that category, especially the larger 2Gen model. As was the case with Nissan's Titan (which is built in Canton, MS), the Tundra was designed pretty much for the American market, and Toyota even built an truck-engine assembly plant in San Antonio for it (TX, of course, being the arch-stereotype state for pickup trucks).
03-26-11, 06:40 PM
#58
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03-26-11, 06:41 PM
#59
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(BTW, I didn't cheat and see ggravant's answer first)
03-26-11, 06:48 PM
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Well, if you include the Corvette, you would probably have to include the Dodge Viper, although the Viper is about to be dropped. The Viper is a classic American high-powered sports-car......many people outside the U.S. have never heard of it, much less own one.
(BTW, I didn't cheat and see ggravant's answer first)
(BTW, I didn't cheat and see ggravant's answer first)
