mmarshall

A number of recent wagons have been successful in the U.S., including the Outback, Venza, and Volvo V70/XC-70. Back a few years, Saturn marketed both S and L-class wagons successfully. The older Accord and Camry wagons were quite popular here, too......until they were dropped in the 1990's. None of these wagons, BTW, was discontinued because of poor sales.....their manufacturers simply convinced themselves that Americans disliked wagons, but it had little basis in fact. But a number of wagons continue in production....and they sell, even in America.


And, of course, look at the most successful wagons recently......Outback, Venza, and XC-70. All three have exactly what, IMO, the TSX wagon should have gotten, and didn't.....more power, AWD, and a higher-stance suspension for deeper snow.

mmarshall

Did they give out all at once? Like it told GSteg, It's unusual for struts, especially two at a time, to both go out to lunch at once. 99+ times out of 100, the seals will gradually loosen up or crack, the pressurized-gas or hydraulic fluid will slowly leak out, and the hood will gradually start to sag instead of dropping all at once. You almost always have plenty of warning. I have heard of very few lawsuits involving injuries or death from prematurely-failing gas-struts.

UDel

Nice review. It seems like a nice car for people who are into wagons, I am just not into wagons so it does not do much for me but it is nice they offer it. I would take the sedan though. There is a wood trim option for the new TSX from some dealers but it is special order option type thing.

As far as not offering a 6 cylinder, SH-AWD or even the manual it would end up being costly to do meaning the price would climb substantially and it would have very few buyers. There is only a limited market for wagons in the US, especially pricey upscale wagons, this is not going to be a big seller so I doubt they want a bunch of different versions for a vehicle that is not going to have much interest in the first place. A manual would be nice especially since it has a Euro look and feel to it but it will only have a very very small number of buyers. I think the 4 cylinder auto was most likely the best combination for this car interest and sales numbers wise.

The TSX wagon actually has slightly better weight distribution then the sedan meaning it should have a slightly sportier drive then the sedan.

UDel

It started coming down slowly a few minutes after I raised it so I raised it back up and when I went to get the air filter it gave out fully and slammed shut. When I work on it now I hold the hood up with a broom placed in front of the radiator because I don't trust it anymore which is kind of silly doing on a 50K car.

mmarshall

Thanks ....and a nice car, too. I enjoyed driving it the way it was, though I thought it also needed some options..


So you never (or rarely) carry any bulky items, then?

The old beige-interior TSX had wood-tone standard from the factory, so I don't know why the new one couldn't either. When Acura dropped the factory-wood-tone from the new TSX, they also changed the beige interior color to "taupe", but it is not really taupe....more or less just a light-gray.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The Venza, Outback, and XC-70 have all proved that 6-cylinder wagons with AWD and a igher-stance suspension will indeed sell in the U.S. The reason the Crosstour hasn't sold more is probably because of its awkward looks, not price or equipment.


I agree to some extent. In the review, I gave the lack of a true manual somewhat less importance than the V6, AWD, and raised-suspension. Subaru, BTW, dropped the manual-transmission turbo-Forester XT (and all turbo Outback XTs) a couple of years ago because of poor sales.....4% or less for each one. But other versions of these two vehicles continue to sell wildly.

It has superb handling and steering response, especially by nose-heavy, front-drive sedan/wagon, non-sports-car standards.

Fizzboy7

Good review.

Unfortunately, this car proves yet again that Acura (Honda) is doing business with their head's up their you know what.
This car has a very slim chance of lasting on the market and not getting canceled. Acura needs to address many other areas in it's line-up and not waste scant resources on a segment that has rarely proven to be profitable or successful.

While I'm on my high horse, Acura and Honda irritate me most by being too stingy and cheap with their limited color options and combinations. Only Nissan is worse, but that's more with outrageous option package limitations.

Also good point about not offering (fake) wood trim. The last model had it and it's a mistake to not offer such a luxury for a "luxury" segment car. Again, Honda/Acura = stingy and cheap.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

mmarshall, the struts do gradually degrade over time but if you're doing something quick under the hood, like checking the oil level, then it doesn't have enough time to drop. If you are doing something more time consuming, like cleaning the throttle body, then it will have enough time to come crashing down on you. The rate that it goes down is almost exponential which is dangerous because you cannot really predict when it'll give out.

For the longest time I used a wooden stick as a prop until I recently bought new hood shocks. Having one side alone is not sufficient to hold up the hood. I tried replacing one side only and although the hood stayed up, one soft touch and the hood started to sag.

I don't mind if manufacturers go back to hood props because I'm fine with them. I see hydraulic shocks fit on large trucks with heavy hoods, but the modern day passenger cars have hoods that aren't that heavy. I will eventually integrate a hood prop into my car. That way I can have the hood shocks for lift support, and the prop as a fail-safe device

LexBob2

The wagons you mention are tall wagons positioned as crossovers, which are popular now. The TSX wagon is a station (sport?) wagon and that is the type of vehicle I was referring to. Look at the Audi A4, BMW 3 wagons - Very nice cars IMO but they don't sell well here in the U.S.

I really like the idea of a stylish, practical wagon with good performance and handling but wouldn't buy one due to poor resale. Most of the old station wagons went away because weren't selling well. Mini vans and then SUV's took their place..

Och

iTrader: (3)

Hahahaha $30k 4 banger wagon.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i expect honda put it out this way to see how it goes and will expand the line if response is good.

launching variations is VERY EXPENSIVE due to our burdensome approval processes.

anyway, mike (mmarshall), good review thanks, and glad you noticed the responsiveness of the 4. i drive an '09 tsx now and then (with 4 cyl) and i'm surprised how peppy it is and steers/corners great. imo it's a FAR better car than say an IS250, with a big trunk, useful back seats, that i believe also fold down.

anyway, i really like the look of this wagon and it's useful as well as fun to drive.

you mean like the high selling HS? or the ct that i bet has a LOT LESS interior room and will probably be more expensive (at least what dealers actually get in stock)?

cts wagon is likely 20k more.

acura has a bunch of fail in its line-up but the tsx and mdx are winners.

IS-SV

Yes and the successful Venza and Outback being tall wagons are EPA-classified as SUV's for good reason, because they are essentially modern crossover SUV's. The regular wagons do sell poorly and the resale values reflect the lack of demand.

UDel

[QUOTE=mmarshall;6205387]Thanks ....and a nice car, too. I enjoyed driving it the way it was, though I thought it also needed some options..

I have not tried to master multi quote but here are some answers.


(So you never (or rarely) carry any bulky items, then? )

-Correct, I hardly ever transport bulky items and when I have they usually fit in my trunk or back seat fine. I moved a good portion of my storage unit in my GS, I was surprised how many things I could stuff in the trunk, back seat, and passenger seat. I have rented vans when I needed to move big items that won't fit in the GS or a wagon or SUV and it was very easy and inexpensive to do.



(The old beige-interior TSX had wood-tone standard from the factory, so I don't know why the new one couldn't either. When Acura dropped the factory-wood-tone from the new TSX, they also changed the beige interior color to "taupe", but it is not really taupe....more or less just a light-gray.)

-They went with a sportier look with the new TSX interior and believed silver metal type trim was more fitting and sporty, pretty much the same thing they did with the 3rd Gen TL refresh, RDX, and 4th gen TL which have very little to no wood trim replaced by mostly silver trim. I like wood trim in cars also but it sometimes looks out of place on something sporty, you can special order wood trim for the new TSX though from some dealerships or overseas.


(I'm not sure I agree with this. The Venza, Outback, and XC-70 have all proved that 6-cylinder wagons with AWD and a igher-stance suspension will indeed sell in the U.S. The reason the Crosstour hasn't sold more is probably because of its awkward looks, not price or equipment.)

-Those vehicles are larger, less pricey, and are not from upmarket brands, they are more like low CUVs with decent ground clearance and some off road/snow capability then a regular pricey sport wagon like the TSX, 3 series, Jetta, A4 wagons, that are more driver oriented and not very popular in the US. The Crosstour fits in a segment not many Honda buyers are interested in, is expensive with only a v6, has awkward looks, and is also shopped against two or 3 other popular Honda models that buyers like more, the Accord sedan, Pilot, and CRV.

mmarshall

Thanks.

So does the Honda Crosstour....which, IMO, should have gotten the body style the TSX Wagon has, but didn't. Instead, Honda tried to make it look like a wagon-coupe, and the results are awkward, if not downright ugly.

I think it will do OK on the market with those who want a FWD wagon and don't need extra ground clarance for snow. In fact, the money, time, and resources spent on the ridiculous ZDX was probably more of a waste than the TSX wagon.

If you saw my recent Hyundai Equus review, Hyundai offers only 4 exterior color choices on a 55-60K luxury car.

Part of this is that the auto designers seem to think (mistakenly) that wood-trim is out of place in "sport"-oriented vehicles, and the industry, as a whole, keeps getting more "sport"-oriented each year. I don't agree that sport-oriented vehicles can't have wood-trim, or, if they do have wood trim, they have to have it in a dull, dark shade that doesn't even look like wood. But many designers have talked themselves into believing that....and we see the result.

mmarshall

You two guys, without realizing it, pretty much agreed with the point I was trying to make. What I was saying is that the Venza, Outback, XC-70, and similiar vehicles sell precisely because they have the "crossover" equipment and options on them that, IMO, the good-looking TSX Sport wagon should have gotten....and didn't. Instead, the brilliant Honda marketers put that stuff (V6, AWD, high-stance suspension, etc....) on the awkward-looking Crosstour....and then wonder why it doesn't sell (though I do see some here in the D.C. area).

mmarshall

Here's a little tip for multi-quotes:

Start with QUOTE=person's name in brackets.

Then highlight what you want to quote, copy it, and transfer it.

Then add /QUOTE in brackets.

Then type out your response.

Repeat this over again for the next part of the phrase you want to quote, and answer.