DustinV

Is this opinion based on the results of sports-biased publications like BMW and Driver, EVO, Motor Trend and Road & Track?

I used to drive the current C class sport in base diesel trim and I loved it. It was my first personal Mercedes (company car) and it was comfortable, well-made, even handled well and in '200 CDI form it was very fuel-efficient. I had absolutely nothing to complain about in this car.

There's a reason the C class sells well. It looks great (stylish lifestyle car), it's safe, it's comfortable and relatively spacious in its class and it's from Mercedes-Benz. When you think about it, this formula has always worked for the C class beginning with the 190 series and the last two generations. Mercedes' knows what their customers want. Period.

Most people in this class, despite what magazines claim, don't give a damn about handling and razor-sharp steering feedback. My ex-C class handled nicely. I had all the sport and handling I'd ever need. I'm your average driver who wants comfort and a bit of sport. I guarantee you that the vast majority of people who buy these so-called sport sedans (3er, IS350, A4 V6 etc.) don't ever drive them in a sporty and competitive fashion. They're bought for status and for luxury, not for sport.

I agree that the C class in the US could use an engine update, but for your average consumer out there the C300 and C350 are perfectly adequate - especially since the average consumer doesn't care to much about getting the lowest possible 0-60 time. It's not an issue when the C300 and C350 are already quick cars. You can safely merge and overtake with both these engines. Hell, I had no problems overtaking fast-traveling cars at higher speeds on the German Autobahns with my 122-horsepower C200 CDI diesel. This almost makes me wonder if the people who drive C350s and complain about the "lack of power" even know how to drive...

DustinV

Leather isn't as durable as fake leather or even cloth. That includes your beloved Infiniti and Lexus leather, to. I've seen used cars from Lexus, Mercedes, BMW etc. on dealer lots in the US and in Europe with high mileages and the leather looked cracked and used and abused. It's something that happens with leather over time and the frequency with which the seats are used. You'll often notice that the rear seats will often be in better shape (or look like new) than the often-used driver's seat.

There's a reason why some premium brands offer fake leather. Fake leather lasts longer and is easier to clean - and to most people it looks completely convincing. People who buy a car with long-term ownership in mind may find fake leather a better investment than genuine leather. The German brands offer fake leather. It's giving their customers a choice. I'm sure there are customers of Lexus and Infiniti products out there that would prefer fake leather over real leather.

Also, not everyone buying a luxury car wants or cares about having real leather. I for example cannot stand leather or even fake leather (if I had to choose between the two I'd go for fake leather for durability reasons) because it generally feels so slippery. I don't like that feeling at all. My preference is for cloth seats - even in a premium car.

And lastly, the condition of the leather seats inside a car also depends on factors such as where the owner parked the car. Having a car parked in downtown sunny Los Angeles in the crackling heat 24/7, 365 days a year isn't going to do your leather seats any favors for example.

*Batman*

Lexus is also now offering fake leather. They call it nu-luxe and it is available in the CT200h.

DustinV

Good move. Now all that needs to happen is for this to trickle up to other models.

Sens4Miles

Thanks. Although I'm not quite sure what you're babbling about or why you posted that link, the new Elantra looks lovely

IS-SV

More on topic, I would select the E550 when spending that kind of money for premium mid-sized car.

Och

iTrader: (3)

When it comes to real leather, there are many different types. Real leather in the 3 series is no match for real leather in the 7 series for example. Fake leather substitute is comparable to the cheap real leather, but it doesn't hold a candle to the premium stuff.

In either case, when it comes to Infiniti M vs E class, and just Infiniti in general, if I was in the market to buy/lease one, I'd first stop by BMW/MB/Lexus showroom, get a quote on their comparable model, and then go to the Infiniti showroom expecting $100-200 lesser monthly payment, depending on the model.

There's no way I'd pay the same money for Infiniti as I would for established brand, even if I liked the Infiniti better. And I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Sens4Miles

That pretty much says it all..
I know why they sell and it's not because the C Class is technologically superior or more advanced or made with better materials than the 3 series, IS, G, or even an ES. It sells because, as you say, for "status" and "luxury", not because it's a better car than anything else in its class.

A Toyota Camry is perfectly "adequate" in terms of power and performance as well. Adequate is not what sells this car and it's certainly not a term that should be used as a selling point for this class.

That's good to know.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I haven't driven the new C, but the last gen C, IS, 3 and G were about even... In fact, all four was about equally lousy with plenty of shortcomings.

All of them improved tremendously with the current generation, and all sell extremely well.

DustinV

You're a chemist? You chemically tested the materials in the 3er, IS or ES and compared them to the materials in the C cabin and came up with that result? Interesting...

Seriously, this "_____ interior is better than ______ interior" has got to stop. It's all SUBJECTIVE. Look under C class owner reviews - most owners claim the interior is well-made and the materials feel upscale. I never felt the interior of my ex-C class was cheap in any way. Sure, it's a bit dark and bland and feels a bit business-like, but "cheap" is such a strong word and completely unfitting for this interior, which is far from cheap. I personally don't consider the IS interior to be all that - nor that of the 3 series, either.



Well then, most people buying a C class will consider the performance completely satisfactory. Do you really think the crowd buying these cars "races" at every streetlight? No. They don't. The standard C300 and C350 are quick cars in their own right and get the job done.

It's almost scary to know that there are people out there, like you, who think cars sell based solely on performance. Most people don't care about the details of performance. If the cars performs well it's all good. Most reviews have even stated the C300 and C350 perform well. That's all people need to know. Period.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I think there is a difference in opinion/philosophy between our US and European members, and you're not the only one Dustin, so no hard feelings.

That said, bigger, faster, more powerful engines do matter here and it's an area where Mercedes is currently suffering in some people's eyes. Talk to those purchasing 335is or IS350s, and they will tell you the Mercedes was underpowered. Is it underpowered for most people? Is it underpowered so that it can't safely pass or accelerate? No, no, and no. However, you're judged by the company that you keep and Mercedes' company here is 300+ hp and 0-60 in less than 5.4 seconds.


P.S. I agree that the interior of the C Class is well made and built with high quality materials...it's just the design that is so unappealing. And yes, that is my subjective opinion

dsnowgs4

I just love how Infinti's get people all revved up on this Board...

Almost as good as a Genesis..

The new Infiniti's are close to Lexus Quality and material but they are not there yet. 8/10 to 9/10ths.

I just had a M37 loaner car and it was beautiful just as nice if not better than the current 3rd gen GS.

Styling is always subjective...

But numbers dont lie. People just simply do not cross shop the M/37/56 with the Benz and BMW. Heck most people dont even know the GS exists is in this class. They just know Lexus...

The 5 and the E have dominated this class and are still the KINGS. Regardless of quality and numbers..

RXSF

From a C class owner:

I can name a few. keep in mind the car came out in 2007 as a 2008 model. It had a hard drive nav that could rip 4gb (now 6gb) of music, my 350 is actually a PZEV (partial zero emissions vehicle, which is better than the competitions' SULEV rating), power folding side mirrors, 7 speed transmission, and other small engineering feats that are built into the car such as headlights that turn on automatically when the rain sensing wipers are activated (headlights are actually required in Cali when it rains) and the best closing door sound within the bunch...just to name a few.

so more technically advanced? yes in some areas. Better engineered? yes in some areas

as for the 350 being underpowered, I do *wish* it could compete with the competition, but the car goes crazy at WOT anyways and I am fine with 268hp.

I am also fine with the interior of my car. Might be a bit plain, but its understated luxury. Features such as beautiful ambient lighting around the interior door handles and the gauges are really well done

UDel

I would not say Benz owners are a bunch of whiners, they continue to buy expensive unreliable costly to maintain cars in droves even after they have so many issues with their previous model. Most "whiners" who nitpick over little things often leave brands all together because of it. Their are/have been many electronic and other issues with Mercedes vehicles that often leave them pretty much inoperable and owners stranded on the side of the road with expensive repairs. If the only issues with Mercedes vehicles were just limited to random lights blinking someone especially at Mercedes would have pointed that out and they would not have the unreliable/expensive to maintain reputation they have and be at the bottom of most surveys.

More power to Mercedes that they have the image to sell very expensive cars that have a reputation for being troublesome and very expensive to fix in such large numbers. It still amazes me the size of Mercedes lineup and how many different models they have in different segments. They have what 5 or 6 completely different 2 door coupe models, that is very impressive.

Hypnotik

As a person that owns a previous gen M45 and previous gen E550 both fully loaded, all I can say is that they are different cars. I don't consider one better than the other in terms of quality or performance because they both have their little flaws. Brand image-wise, of course I consider my Benz to be better. But then again, I consider MB to be better than Lexus and BMW image-wise. I still own a BMW and I did own a SC430.

For the people so concerned about price; Most people DON'T get these cars fully loaded. If you build a comparable M with a comparable E, the E will still be more expensive. The M is acting as infiniti's halo car so that may be why it is priced the way it is

I think the new M looks great. My brother got an M37 loaner this week since his G was in for service. The build quality was top notch and it drove really well. The only thing I didnt like about the exterior were the tail lights. But the tail lights on the new E-class are what I dislike as well.

If I had to choose between the new E550 and the M56, it would be a really tough call.