Lexus U.S. dealer meeting notes - WSJ
10-06-10, 06:37 AM
#18
Lexus is the only one to blame for the woes of the 3GS - they have let the car die on the vine and done almost nothing to help.
IS has been refreshed twice, has a dedicated F-Sport model, had F-Sport parts before the GS, offers a factory sports package, and has been updated year-to-year with small but important changes.
ES received a nice refresh, got a revamped interior and updated exterior, and now looks much better.
LS got a pretty significant refresh, added a Sport model, interior and exterior touches
The GS came out of the gate with weak engines - for 07 they upgraded the V6, for 08 they upgraded the V8 (which is still weak). For 08 they also changed wheel styles, added side indicators to the side view mirrors, and made barely perceptible changes to the front and rear bumpers......that was it.
The GS got the weakest refresh of the bunch (which, IMO, is the biggest issue) and they never took any additional steps to help: no Sport model to make the car stand out, F Sport for the GS has been a soft launch and there is far less promotion than there was for the IS F Sport, and adverising has been WEAK. The first year there were those push-button themed commercials and then they had the "GS Donuts" commercial in '08 but I don't recall any others. The IS has had a campaign almost every year, and the ES and LS are not far behind.
All in all, I hope the people at Lexus aren't standing around with their hands in their pockets thinking, "Man, this whole GS thing really isn't working out...what a crap shoot" because THEY are the ones at fault. This car has been poorly handled/planned from day one, IMO.
IS has been refreshed twice, has a dedicated F-Sport model, had F-Sport parts before the GS, offers a factory sports package, and has been updated year-to-year with small but important changes.
ES received a nice refresh, got a revamped interior and updated exterior, and now looks much better.
LS got a pretty significant refresh, added a Sport model, interior and exterior touches
The GS came out of the gate with weak engines - for 07 they upgraded the V6, for 08 they upgraded the V8 (which is still weak). For 08 they also changed wheel styles, added side indicators to the side view mirrors, and made barely perceptible changes to the front and rear bumpers......that was it.
The GS got the weakest refresh of the bunch (which, IMO, is the biggest issue) and they never took any additional steps to help: no Sport model to make the car stand out, F Sport for the GS has been a soft launch and there is far less promotion than there was for the IS F Sport, and adverising has been WEAK. The first year there were those push-button themed commercials and then they had the "GS Donuts" commercial in '08 but I don't recall any others. The IS has had a campaign almost every year, and the ES and LS are not far behind.
All in all, I hope the people at Lexus aren't standing around with their hands in their pockets thinking, "Man, this whole GS thing really isn't working out...what a crap shoot" because THEY are the ones at fault. This car has been poorly handled/planned from day one, IMO.
10-06-10, 10:24 AM
#19
that's why in some sense, i "hope" lexus has somewhat given up on the 3gs and been focusing on making 4gs a bomb and become a hit. imho, the 3gs was not designed entirely correctly since day 1, the platform itself is a problem. so it's not something facelift or whatever can fix anymore. that's probably why we see a lot more attention on other lexus models but not the 3gs
if that's the case (and that they are full force on 4gs), i have high hope
if that's the case (and that they are full force on 4gs), i have high hope
10-06-10, 10:50 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Lexus is the only one to blame for the woes of the 3GS - they have let the car die on the vine and done almost nothing to help.
IS has been refreshed twice, has a dedicated F-Sport model, had F-Sport parts before the GS, offers a factory sports package, and has been updated year-to-year with small but important changes.
ES received a nice refresh, got a revamped interior and updated exterior, and now looks much better.
LS got a pretty significant refresh, added a Sport model, interior and exterior touches
The GS came out of the gate with weak engines - for 07 they upgraded the V6, for 08 they upgraded the V8 (which is still weak). For 08 they also changed wheel styles, added side indicators to the side view mirrors, and made barely perceptible changes to the front and rear bumpers......that was it.
The GS got the weakest refresh of the bunch (which, IMO, is the biggest issue) and they never took any additional steps to help: no Sport model to make the car stand out, F Sport for the GS has been a soft launch and there is far less promotion than there was for the IS F Sport, and adverising has been WEAK. The first year there were those push-button themed commercials and then they had the "GS Donuts" commercial in '08 but I don't recall any others. The IS has had a campaign almost every year, and the ES and LS are not far behind.
All in all, I hope the people at Lexus aren't standing around with their hands in their pockets thinking, "Man, this whole GS thing really isn't working out...what a crap shoot" because THEY are the ones at fault. This car has been poorly handled/planned from day one, IMO.
IS has been refreshed twice, has a dedicated F-Sport model, had F-Sport parts before the GS, offers a factory sports package, and has been updated year-to-year with small but important changes.
ES received a nice refresh, got a revamped interior and updated exterior, and now looks much better.
LS got a pretty significant refresh, added a Sport model, interior and exterior touches
The GS came out of the gate with weak engines - for 07 they upgraded the V6, for 08 they upgraded the V8 (which is still weak). For 08 they also changed wheel styles, added side indicators to the side view mirrors, and made barely perceptible changes to the front and rear bumpers......that was it.
The GS got the weakest refresh of the bunch (which, IMO, is the biggest issue) and they never took any additional steps to help: no Sport model to make the car stand out, F Sport for the GS has been a soft launch and there is far less promotion than there was for the IS F Sport, and adverising has been WEAK. The first year there were those push-button themed commercials and then they had the "GS Donuts" commercial in '08 but I don't recall any others. The IS has had a campaign almost every year, and the ES and LS are not far behind.
All in all, I hope the people at Lexus aren't standing around with their hands in their pockets thinking, "Man, this whole GS thing really isn't working out...what a crap shoot" because THEY are the ones at fault. This car has been poorly handled/planned from day one, IMO.
10-06-10, 11:02 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
And again some people are stuck in 1998. Guess what the 2GS ain't happening again. When the 2GS debuted the only cars in the segment worth a damn was the E class and 5 series.
It is 2010 and the segment is thick. In 2006 Infiniti finally got their act together with the M and even the RL is better. The XF is tons better than the S-type, the S80 is good, the MKS is solid and even tweeners like the ES, TL, CTS are around.
Does anyone honestly expect some 550hp or 600hp twin turbo Lexus like the Germans? Hell the LFA "only" has 552hp.
Then the 3GS was 3rd best selling in class behind the 5/E until last year.
The 3GS debuted the worlds first hybrid luxury sport sedan. Well lets see here, 4 years later the competition is trying to make it.
The 3GS 350 has best in class MPG and automatic acceleration.
The 3GS debuted L-finesse styling.
Have their been hiccups with the 3GS? Yes.
Are there some questionable decisions about the 3GS? Yes.
However lets not portray the picture like it did poorly like the HS or Sportcross.
Look at the competition today. Ask yourselves these honest questions.
Will the GS V-8 (non F) have more than 400 or 429hp? Probably not, and that is if it comes.
Will the GS F have as much or more power than a turbo AMG/RS/M car/ No.
The "F" brand is still very new. It took Benz 15 years to really expand their AMG lineup. They had only the C32 for nearly 8 years.
It is 2010 and the segment is thick. In 2006 Infiniti finally got their act together with the M and even the RL is better. The XF is tons better than the S-type, the S80 is good, the MKS is solid and even tweeners like the ES, TL, CTS are around.
Does anyone honestly expect some 550hp or 600hp twin turbo Lexus like the Germans? Hell the LFA "only" has 552hp.
Then the 3GS was 3rd best selling in class behind the 5/E until last year.
The 3GS debuted the worlds first hybrid luxury sport sedan. Well lets see here, 4 years later the competition is trying to make it.
The 3GS 350 has best in class MPG and automatic acceleration.
The 3GS debuted L-finesse styling.
Have their been hiccups with the 3GS? Yes.
Are there some questionable decisions about the 3GS? Yes.
However lets not portray the picture like it did poorly like the HS or Sportcross.
Look at the competition today. Ask yourselves these honest questions.
Will the GS V-8 (non F) have more than 400 or 429hp? Probably not, and that is if it comes.
Will the GS F have as much or more power than a turbo AMG/RS/M car/ No.
The "F" brand is still very new. It took Benz 15 years to really expand their AMG lineup. They had only the C32 for nearly 8 years.
10-06-10, 11:03 AM
#22
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That's a great point. The GS refresh was too subtle as far as your typical facelift. The front and rear bumpers are barely dicernable and the rear lights should have been jazzed up more (like how the ES and IS's changed). From the back, it's basically the same car since 2006. Whoever at Lexus decided this was the way to go has contributed to creating a stale model that could have sold more later in it's life.
10-06-10, 12:13 PM
#23
Article
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...e-narrows.html
Mercedes sales rose 18% to 159,729 so far this year, while BMW deliveries are up 9.2% to 157,464. These results don’t include sales of Mercedes’ Sprinter vans and Smart cars or BMW’s Mini brand.
Mercedes sales rose 18% to 159,729 so far this year, while BMW deliveries are up 9.2% to 157,464. These results don’t include sales of Mercedes’ Sprinter vans and Smart cars or BMW’s Mini brand.
10-06-10, 01:20 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
bmw pretty much did the same thing with the last gen 5 series. Same taillights for 7 years, except changing bulbs to leds.
no harm done there....
the GS didn't sell for reasons other than cosmetic.
Last edited by dunnojack; 10-06-10 at 01:33 PM.
10-06-10, 02:08 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
oh really? Well why don't u back up that statement with some sales figures.
Please show us how poorly it sold.
Post it's yearly sales compared to the competition.
As a matter of fact how about anyone?
I already know what the answer is but please if one is going to spread lies let's see the data!
Show it!
Please show us how poorly it sold.
Post it's yearly sales compared to the competition.
As a matter of fact how about anyone?
I already know what the answer is but please if one is going to spread lies let's see the data!
Show it!
10-06-10, 02:25 PM
#27
Nobody has mentioned the ES, which IMO, is another big problem for the 3GS. I have tackled that issue at length so I won't bore you people again, but to most consumers, the ES offers 80% of what the GS does and costs $10-20K less.
More differentiation and clearer identities are needed next time around.
I worked in a dealership for a LONG time and can't even count the number of people who came in looking at a GS but left with an ES because they "didn't see the reason to spend $10,000 more."
That said, the general public is stupid.
More differentiation and clearer identities are needed next time around.
I worked in a dealership for a LONG time and can't even count the number of people who came in looking at a GS but left with an ES because they "didn't see the reason to spend $10,000 more."
That said, the general public is stupid.
10-06-10, 02:53 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
did you misread what I wrote? I said there are a bunch of other reasons for the sales decline, and cosmetic is not one of them. someone else implied that a modified rear end could have boosted sales. I disagreed. The 2008 refresh did nothing to boost sales.
sales decline = not a lie. Look at the numbers.
it started with 2000 per month. now it's down to ~600.
2006- 27400 sold
2007- 23400
2008- 15800
2009- 7400.
is that a lie?
from 27400 to 7400. Pretty poor, wouldn't you say?
Look at bmw 5 series usa sales. You don't see them dropping off drastically after 4 years. In march 2004, they were selling 3500+. In march 2009, they were still selling 3500+.
Whatever the reasons (incentives, etc) for GS sales decline, it wasn't because the butt end stayed the same.
Last edited by dunnojack; 10-06-10 at 03:22 PM.
10-06-10, 06:07 PM
#29
oh really? Well why don't u back up that statement with some sales figures.
Please show us how poorly it sold.
Post it's yearly sales compared to the competition.
As a matter of fact how about anyone?
I already know what the answer is but please if one is going to spread lies let's see the data!
Show it!
Please show us how poorly it sold.
Post it's yearly sales compared to the competition.
As a matter of fact how about anyone?
I already know what the answer is but please if one is going to spread lies let's see the data!
Show it!
personally i don't have that data (nor the 2gs for comparison), i look at monthly sales numbers from time to time and i have always seen the gs as 3rd, true. but a pretty distant 3rd too (of the months i have read).
and from driving around socal, one thing i notice is
when comparing between w210, e39, and 2gs, i actually see pretty even distribution of them (of course, could be that more and more w210 and e39 die)
but when i look at w211, e60, and 3gs around here, i honestly see quite a bit less 3gs by comparison. i know that's more like "buttmeter", but it's an observation. and knowing some sales, they do admit to me that it was easier to sell 2gs, whereas 3gs just aren't selling very well
10-06-10, 06:50 PM
#30
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Toyota Confirms Highlights of Annual National Dealer Meeting
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...of-173068.aspx
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...of-173068.aspx
October 7, 2010 -Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. confirmed that its annual national dealer meeting took place this evening in Las Vegas. The private meeting was attended by representatives from Toyota’s 1,200 U.S. dealers. Speakers included Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) President Akio Toyoda, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A. (TMS) Chairman and CEO Yoshi Inaba, TMS President and COO Jim Lentz, TMS Senior Vice President, Automotive Operations Don Esmond, Toyota Division Group Vice President and General Manager Bob Carter and Vice President-Scion Jack Hollis.
Mr. Toyoda thanked dealers for their extraordinary efforts in serving Toyota customers and outlined his plan to build a new, more dynamic Toyota based on three cornerstones:
1) Putting the fun back into driving and owning a Toyota;
2) Offering the best quality cars at value prices;
3) Listening to customers and dealers so that we can respond better and faster. “I want Toyota to set a new benchmark in listening to our customers and dealers, sharing critical information and responding better than any car company in history,” he said.
Speaking about Toyota’s environmental commitments, Toyoda said, “We will expand our lineup to include more hybrids, plug-in hybrids, battery electric cars and fuel cell vehicles. We are determined to be the leader in this area.”
Other themes from the executive speeches included:
-Toyota is back on track to growth: Driven by high quality and fun-to-drive new products and a recovering economy, the Toyota Division and its dealers will continue to grow in the years ahead and will work hard to remain the number one retail brand in the industry.
-A strong lineup of all-new or updated products. These new vehicles will focus on style and fun-to-drive attributes designed to spark renewed interest in Toyota by young drivers.
-“Toyota Care” will become standard equipment on all Toyota and Scion models. In response to the overwhelmingly positive customer reaction to the two year/25,000 mile free maintenance program, “Toyota Care” will immediately become standard equipment on all Toyota and Scion models with improvements that make it better for consumers and better for dealers. Toyota is the first volume brand to offer this feature. The highest quality cars on the road will now also have the lowest cost of ownership.
-Our quality focus is stronger than ever. Independent, third party tests continue to show that Toyota products lead the industry when it comes to quality, dependability and reliability.
-We’re more committed than ever to North America. Toyota will continue to strengthen its North America operations by investing more than one billion dollars on the new plant in Mississippi to increase Corolla production. Truck production also has been increased. In addition TMC is committed to giving North America more autonomy and decision-making authority, including relying more heavily on local designers and engineers to tailor products for the North American market.
Mr. Toyoda thanked dealers for their extraordinary efforts in serving Toyota customers and outlined his plan to build a new, more dynamic Toyota based on three cornerstones:
1) Putting the fun back into driving and owning a Toyota;
2) Offering the best quality cars at value prices;
3) Listening to customers and dealers so that we can respond better and faster. “I want Toyota to set a new benchmark in listening to our customers and dealers, sharing critical information and responding better than any car company in history,” he said.
Speaking about Toyota’s environmental commitments, Toyoda said, “We will expand our lineup to include more hybrids, plug-in hybrids, battery electric cars and fuel cell vehicles. We are determined to be the leader in this area.”
Other themes from the executive speeches included:
-Toyota is back on track to growth: Driven by high quality and fun-to-drive new products and a recovering economy, the Toyota Division and its dealers will continue to grow in the years ahead and will work hard to remain the number one retail brand in the industry.
-A strong lineup of all-new or updated products. These new vehicles will focus on style and fun-to-drive attributes designed to spark renewed interest in Toyota by young drivers.
-“Toyota Care” will become standard equipment on all Toyota and Scion models. In response to the overwhelmingly positive customer reaction to the two year/25,000 mile free maintenance program, “Toyota Care” will immediately become standard equipment on all Toyota and Scion models with improvements that make it better for consumers and better for dealers. Toyota is the first volume brand to offer this feature. The highest quality cars on the road will now also have the lowest cost of ownership.
-Our quality focus is stronger than ever. Independent, third party tests continue to show that Toyota products lead the industry when it comes to quality, dependability and reliability.
-We’re more committed than ever to North America. Toyota will continue to strengthen its North America operations by investing more than one billion dollars on the new plant in Mississippi to increase Corolla production. Truck production also has been increased. In addition TMC is committed to giving North America more autonomy and decision-making authority, including relying more heavily on local designers and engineers to tailor products for the North American market.