Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Clarkson on: petrol

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-19-10, 08:36 PM
  #1  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post Clarkson on: petrol

http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-cla...pensive-petrol

Because I own a teenage daughter, the television in my house is almost always tuned to a music-video station on which a selection of furious young men in stupid trousers urge their followers to take up gardening. It's a non-stop stream of instruction to "kill a pig" and "do some hoeing".

Strangely, there seems to be very little actual gardening in the videos, but there are a lot of cars. And here's something I've noticed. The chaps in their enormous baggy gardening trousers drive around incredibly slowly. More slowly even than Percy Thrower, who, of course, is dead.

This is a disturbing development. There was no such thing as a music video when I was growing up, but I feel fairly sure that if Led Zeppelin had made such a thing, and they had felt inclined to feature a car - which is unlikely - they would not have been pottering about at 12mph.

Proper rock stars who could actually play an instrument had Ferraris which they drove at preposterous speeds, usually into a swimming pool. And it was the same story with people in the movies. James Dean was not doing 12mph when he hit Mr Turnipspeed. And Steve McQueen did not dawdle round San Francisco in his Mustang. He flew. Literally. Speed was good. Speed worked.

When I was growing up, we all wanted to drive fast. Driving fast and doing handbrake turns and spinning the wheels when pulling away from the lights: none of these things had been proven to win a girl's heart, but we knew from the way they giggled as we flew by that they loved us for it. They thought we were real men. So we went even faster until we crashed.

A car's top speed was everything. Everyone had a mate called Kev whose Fiesta could do 150. We all had stories about beating Porsche 911 turbos on the ring road. And traffic lights weren't signals to aid with the commuter flow of a morning. They were start signals. Red: rev. Orange: rev more. Green: dump the clutch. In my mind, that's what it said in the Highway Code back then.

The first time I was stopped by the police for speeding - and this happened very infrequently - I was so embarrassed that it had only been 88mph that I told my mates it was 118. And even then, they weren't impressed because, as we know, all of them had a mate called Kev whose Fiesta could do 150.

Now, at this point you are probably expecting me to call for the young people of today to put away their cycling helmets and their high-visibility safety vests and get a bloody move on. But I'm afraid there's absolutely no point. Because it's impossible.

It's not health and safety that's slowing them down. Young men are not programmed to tip-toe when they can tombstone. And nor is it those young role models on MTV or whatever it's called these days. If youngsters really were listening to what that lot had to say, they'd all be out in the garden, rearing pigs for market and weeding the veg patch. And they're not.

It's not the government's relentless war on speed either, or Jonathan Porridge running about telling everyone that the ice cap is melting, because of course, we now know that this year, the volume of polar ice has increased dramatically.

No. The real reason that kids in music videos - and in the real world - don't really drive fast any more is that, with petrol at £6 a gallon, it's simply too expensive.

And it's not just kids either. Formula One drivers go slowly - they say - to preserve their tyres. But this is nonsense. It's because Vodafone can't afford the fuel bills. The producer of TopGear recently took a supercharged Range Rover to the Alps so he could spend a week falling over and came back bankrupted by the V8's thirst.

I know enough about the economy to know that there is such a thing as inflation, but the fact is this - inflation is not the only reason why it used to cost £3 to fill the tank of my car, and now it costs £120. Going to London and back at a lick in the Mercedes, sets me back around £50. Out of taxed income, that's £100. That's £500 a week. And that's £25,000 a year. Which is more than the average national wage.

This, then, is why kids are driving slowly. Because although they now get their music for free, you can't download spot cream, or vodka, and there simply isn't enough left over to burn a gallon simply pulling away from the lights.

I suppose, if I'm honest, it's not just kids either. The same applies to pensioners and families. Everyone really, except Elton John. Driving fast is no longer a rite of passage. It's a luxury only a very few can afford, and I think it's time car makers responded to this.

Many will say at this point that they are. Mercedes has teamed up with Renault and Nissan to work on a range of new small cars. Battery power is being shoehorned into the Mini, and everyone is busy developing hybrids. But they are forgetting something. They seem to be equating the cost of the car with the cost of running it, and the two don't always go hand in hand.

I don't mind buying an expensive car, but I do mind standing at a filling station watching the digital read-out adding noughts to my credit-card bill for a tankful of something I can't even see. I therefore find myself wondering in these difficult times if perhaps someone in the motor industry could dig out some details of the old Renault 5 Monaco.

It was, as you would imagine, a Renault 5, which means it was a small economical car. But inside, it was fitted with electric windows - rare for the time - power steering, sumptuous leather seats and a decent sound system. It was, in other words, a small luxury car. Is such a thing out of the question today?

When car makers think small, they think cheap. They therefore fit it with skinny tyres and suspension made from tin-foil and interior panels affixed in place with poppers rather than screws. But what if, say, Mercedes applied exactly the same principals they use to make an S-Class to a Smart?

I'm sure, of course, that if it had radar-guided cruise-control and a hands-free telephone and a Bang and Olufsen stereo and seats which are like sitting on Dawn French, it would be expensive to buy. And the car makers would argue that no one would spend £40,000 on a Smart. But why not?

I don't want a big car, particularly. I have no need for acreage, and I really don't like the fuel bills. But I don't want a small one at the moment because they're all like supermarket own-brand cola: weedy imitations of the real thing. What I would like - and I suspect I'm not alone in this - is a small economical car that's built and equipped like a big one. A Phaeton in a Golf suit, if you will. Or a Freelander with absolutely everything you get on a Vogue SE. Or, better still, a Fiat 500 which feels like a Maserati Quattroporte.

I do not believe that such a thing would be impossible, and I believe the profit margins for the car makers would be great. So they make money. And I save it at the pumps. This is what comes, I suppose, from turning 50, something I did last month: vision, and wisdom.
 
Old 07-19-10, 09:29 PM
  #2  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 90,516
Received 83 Likes on 82 Posts
Default

What I would like - and I suspect I'm not alone in this - is a small economical car that's built and equipped like a big one.
If Audi puts the TDI into the A4 (they may already do so in Europe...I'm not sure), that would be a great example of small-car economy combined with good fit/finish, a nice interior, and a nice-driving car.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 07-19-10, 09:38 PM
  #3  
MR_F1
Lexus Champion
 
MR_F1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 3,370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Think he'd like the CT200h then?
MR_F1 is offline  
Old 07-30-10, 04:43 AM
  #4  
YviE
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (3)
 
YviE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
If Audi puts the TDI into the A4 (they may already do so in Europe...I'm not sure), that would be a great example of small-car economy combined with good fit/finish, a nice interior, and a nice-driving car.

In Belgium and France, roughly 90% of all A4/6s, BMW 3/5 Series, Mercedes C & Es, Volvo S60/80s, Golfs & Passats are sold with diesel engines. Often the model lineup consists of more diesel engines than petrol ones...

I suspect it's about 70% in the Netherlands as they have to pay more taxes on diesels (pollution).

It is extremely rare to find a Passat or Golf with a petrol engine around here.
YviE is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 05:17 AM
  #5  
Blackraven
Lexus Champion
 
Blackraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Makati, Philippines
Posts: 3,459
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by YviE
In Belgium and France, roughly 90% of all A4/6s, BMW 3/5 Series, Mercedes C & Es, Volvo S60/80s, Golfs & Passats are sold with diesel engines. Often the model lineup consists of more diesel engines than petrol ones...

I suspect it's about 70% in the Netherlands as they have to pay more taxes on diesels (pollution).

It is extremely rare to find a Passat or Golf with a petrol engine around here.
I agree with your statement.

Actually
I think that's how the fuel and vehicle tax structure works there over in Europe (from what I know). I think DustinV showed me a sample computation on how they do it in Germany. I think CO2 emission charging schemes are the most prominent factor (and that's where diesel-powered cars have the advantage over petrol/gasoline ones). I know for one that Vehicle Excise Duty system implemented in the UK is a main factor over there......

Btw, is Diesel fuel over there cheaper than unleaded fuel in Europe? Same? Or other way around?
Blackraven is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 05:40 AM
  #6  
YviE
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (3)
 
YviE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Diesel is cheaper than petrol. Now it's approximately 1.10€/L for diesel, 1.30€/L for regular petrol (95 octane) and about 1.45€/L for premium petrol (98 octane). Those are the prices in Belgium and France. In the Netherlands is even more expensive. During summer 2008 I've seen ridiculous prices, like 1.73€/L!!!


As for taxation on new cars(in France), Government has instaured a bonus/malus taxation system. It is based on the amount of CO per km :
< 105gr/km get a bonus of up to 1,000 euro*
> 210gr/km get a malus of up to 1,600 euro*

*don't quote me on these numbers as they've recently been changed

The French don't pay any roadtax anymore since 1998 I believe. In Belgium you have an annual roadtax, the amount depends on the number of kW. Germany and the Netherlands have a different roadtax system and I believe it is emissions-based. Roadtax has to paid quarterly if I'm not mistaken.

I just switched from regular petrol to E85, as it's only 0.81€/L. We'll see how that goes.
YviE is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 05:43 AM
  #7  
YviE
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (3)
 
YviE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Just want to add that European governments have been lobbying for diesel-powered cars for years. One of the reasons is that they pollute less... yes, they emit less CO, but they do emit other more harmless gasses...

Also, dealerships will always try to sell you a diesel car. Entry-level diesel cars are more expensive than their petrol counterparts and are more expensive to maintain. Also, they tend to break down more. Today's diesel engines are packed with high tech and electronics. That often goes wrong. Also, they require very good quality diesel, if not you can blow your injectors. Very expensive to replace on common-rail diesels.
YviE is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 08:35 AM
  #8  
Big Andy
Pole Position
 
Big Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,795
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

The case for small diesel cars in Europe may be coming to an end. With the new Euro 6 emissions regs coming diesel cars will require hundreds of pounds/euros of extra kit to clean up the tailpipe gases, making them far too expensive except for large engined luxury cars. With the new petrol engines like FIAT's MultiAir system and small displacements with turbos, modern petrol engines can match diesels for CO2 emissions and almost match them for fuel economy. Our little 1.2 FIAT 500 gets 45mpg around town and attracts £35 a year road tax. The MultiAir model replacing it will be 20% more powerful, get a comfortable 60mpg and the CO2 emissions will be so low that it will attract zero road tax.
Big Andy is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 09:23 AM
  #9  
IS-SV
Lexus Fanatic
 
IS-SV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tech capital
Posts: 14,100
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Interesting recent info from the UK/Europe, the soot/pollution and stench won't be missed.
IS-SV is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 10:53 AM
  #10  
OC 335d
Lexus Test Driver
 
OC 335d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Interesting/good read. Maybe more Diesels there can benefit from the Particulate filter + urea injection that the U.S.BMW Diesels employ (like my 335D - which I love).

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...le_filter.html
OC 335d is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 11:17 AM
  #11  
Blackraven
Lexus Champion
 
Blackraven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Makati, Philippines
Posts: 3,459
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Yup very interesting stuff.

From what I've also read, it appears that Euro 6 is obviously not the end of stringent emission standards over there. Heck, I have a hunch that the EU bigwigs in government will not stop tightening emission regulations.......probably until at least ALL AUTOMOBILES are 0 g/km CO2 (and virtually zero emissions lol). Whether people see that as a good or a bad thing is up to them........

For instance, I've noticed that in the UK. They seem to be increasing the penalties for high-emitting cars under VED TAX BAND G or lower......and they seem to do it every year. Indeed, the cost of running your Nissan Murano V6 there costs more and more per year (hence why I think Nissan launched their diesel version over there).

-----
In Japan I think they implement something like this:




AFAIK, the blue sticker is for emissions and the green one is for fuel efficiency. I'm not sure under the exact details but these involve the Heisei Year 17 emission regulations and Heisei Year 22 Green Tax Program respectively.

I'll see if I can find further explanations on this...........or wait, I think we have a forumer here who is from Japan (Dave600HL was his name?). Maybe he can explain on this......

Blackraven is offline  
Old 08-02-10, 11:23 AM
  #12  
YviE
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (3)
 
YviE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: France
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Yes, more and more diesel-powered cars come equipped with those particulate filters. On the smaller engines it is mostly optional, but it comes standard on the bigger engines.

However, sometimes those filters require maintenance (I know Peugeot's one does) which can be costly. They also fail often and need to be replaced. It is an expensive part (often >500 euro).

As Big Andy explained, petrol engines are back. Manufacturers are applying new technology on petrol engines and they are becoming increasingly efficient. For example, VW makes a small 1.4L engines with a supercharger AND a turbo. They get 180hp out of it!
YviE is offline  
Old 08-03-10, 09:25 AM
  #13  
Infra
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (1)
 
Infra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
If Audi puts the TDI into the A4 (they may already do so in Europe...I'm not sure), that would be a great example of small-car economy combined with good fit/finish, a nice interior, and a nice-driving car.
The A4 is still a large car.

The A3 has the TDI, and has nearly as much passenger space, and more cargo space. American's just hate hatchbacks.
Infra is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Hartawan
Car Chat
15
06-02-08 01:45 PM
lexusk8
Car Chat
22
10-13-04 10:32 AM



Quick Reply: Clarkson on: petrol



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:07 AM.