Next Nissan Z, Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru WRX Going Diesel, Hybrid?
07-12-10, 12:30 PM
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Next Nissan Z, Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru WRX Going Diesel, Hybrid?
Is the Race Over? Mitsu, Subie Eye Diesels, Hybrids for Evo, WRX
New Regulations Likely Mean New Powertrains for Japanese Sports Cars
June 10, 2010 / By Peter Lyon
A Nissan Z powered by a Mercedes diesel, hybrid, or even a Diesotto engine? It may sound like we've been sniffing too many fumes, but as the dust from the Renault-Nissan/Daimler deal begins to settle, a source close to Nissan has revealed to us that the next-generation Nissan Z will likely be among the vehicles fitted with Daimler-sourced engine options.
The new deal suggests Renault-Nissan will supply Daimler with 3- and 4-cylinder gas engines and electric vehicle technology while Daimler will deliver 4-, 6- and 8-cylinder gas, diesel and hybrid powerplants to the Franco-Japanese alliance.
There are no doubt a lot of Nissan fans in Japan and the U.S. who will question any move to replace Nissan engines with those of a competitor, especially when you consider that the VQ series V-6 has been rated at or near the top of its class for the past decade (although it has begun to lag behind in mileage, emissions and overall refinement). But with stringent CO2 and fuel efficiency regulations in the offing for both Europe and the U.S., radical course changes are probably inevitable.
Nissan reportedly has its eye on two Daimler diesels: the 210-horsepower, 3.0-liter BlueTEC already available in several U.S. Mercedes models, and more strategically, the even more efficient, 2.2-liter four-cylinder E300 BlueTEC diesel-hybrid. (The automaker also recently unveiled its own 3.0-liter diesel unit for its European Infiniti lineup.) Another potential engine that might find its way into the Z at some point is the Mercedes Diesotto unit. Combining the best features of diesel and gas engines into one powerplant, the Diesotto is a 1.8-liter 4-cylinder generating 238 horsepower. But that engine is still in development and would likely be a long way off for any Z application.
On the gasoline hybrid front, the next Z had been expected to inherit Nissan's new V-6 hybrid powerplant set to debut in the Infiniti M shortly, but rumors now suggest the engine could instead be a version of the 3.5-liter V-6 hybrid from the S400.
Renault-Nissan head man Carlos Ghosn has reportedly been keeping a close eye on sports cars powered by hybrids, especially the Ferrari 599 hybrid concept and the Porsche 911 GT3 R hybrid, which proved its mettle during last month's Nurburgring 24-Hour event. Whether it turns out to be a diesel, hybrid, or a combination of both, Ghosn looks to be eyeing a similar blend of performance and efficiency for his next Z. Whatever happens, it likely won't be anytime soon as we don't expect to see the new car until late in calendar year 2012 at the earliest.
Mitsubishi's Lancer Evolution and Subaru's Impreza WRX have been archrivals on both the road and rally circuits for the better part of the past two decades, but with a host of stringent new efficiency and emissions regulations looming, like Nissan, the Japanese automakers are reportedly reexamining the missions of their potent performers. And those changes mean that we may never see the Evo and WRX battling on the same circuits again.
It was just over a month ago that we heard rumors that Mitsubishi was even considering canceling the next generation Evolution altogether! Well, you can breathe easy, because a source close to the company revealed that the Evo's R&D team is back in the design studio, but is reportedly taking the car in a totally new direction away from gasoline turbos and toward clean diesels. We hear it's much the same story for the WRX, which has prided itself on its now legendary all-wheel drive and turbocharged boxer engine combination.
Just last year at the Tokyo Motor Show, we mentioned that the next Evo would sit on a version of the PX-MiEV (SUV) concept's platform and employ its new plug-in hybrid system. Our source now tells us that while it will incorporate part of that hybrid system, engineers have switched strategies away from a gas hybrid and are now working on a turbocharged clean diesel hybrid that will generate prodigious torque and far better fuel economy. It's also expected to employ an upgraded version of the current Evo X's highly rated 4WD system with S-AWC boasting an integrated, electronically controlled steering, braking, and traction control combination.
Meanwhile, an insider tells us that the next Impreza WRX will be powered by an enhanced version of the 2.0-liter turbodiesel unit currently powering the Euro-spec Impreza. But unlike with the Mitsubishi, the Subaru will not employ a hybrid unit -- at least not initially. We're also told that Subaru does not have plans to abandon gasoline turbocharged engines, and is presently at work on a smaller capacity turbocharged 4-cylinder that will deliver cleaner CO2 emissions and better mileage.
Will the proposed radical shifts in engine philosophy for Japan's top two pocket rockets affect the buying habits of global customers? While Europeans fully appreciate the merits of diesels, fans in the U.S., Japan, and elsewhere will have more difficulty accepting oil-burners - especially from cars so closely associated with turbocharged gasoline power. And that fact is compounded by news leaking out of Mitsubishi that its next Evo will no longer compete in any form of motorsport, while the next WRX is said to be turning its focus to road racing only. Can these two cars rest on their laurels alone without the racing appeal? Taking away the competition aspect - not to mention moving toward diesel and hybrid motivation - could end up backfiring. At this point nothing is set in stone, however. We should know more in the next year or two as more information leaks out of Japan.
link here
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...sel/index.html
hope its not a repost. what do you guys think?
New Regulations Likely Mean New Powertrains for Japanese Sports Cars
June 10, 2010 / By Peter Lyon
A Nissan Z powered by a Mercedes diesel, hybrid, or even a Diesotto engine? It may sound like we've been sniffing too many fumes, but as the dust from the Renault-Nissan/Daimler deal begins to settle, a source close to Nissan has revealed to us that the next-generation Nissan Z will likely be among the vehicles fitted with Daimler-sourced engine options.
The new deal suggests Renault-Nissan will supply Daimler with 3- and 4-cylinder gas engines and electric vehicle technology while Daimler will deliver 4-, 6- and 8-cylinder gas, diesel and hybrid powerplants to the Franco-Japanese alliance.
There are no doubt a lot of Nissan fans in Japan and the U.S. who will question any move to replace Nissan engines with those of a competitor, especially when you consider that the VQ series V-6 has been rated at or near the top of its class for the past decade (although it has begun to lag behind in mileage, emissions and overall refinement). But with stringent CO2 and fuel efficiency regulations in the offing for both Europe and the U.S., radical course changes are probably inevitable.
Nissan reportedly has its eye on two Daimler diesels: the 210-horsepower, 3.0-liter BlueTEC already available in several U.S. Mercedes models, and more strategically, the even more efficient, 2.2-liter four-cylinder E300 BlueTEC diesel-hybrid. (The automaker also recently unveiled its own 3.0-liter diesel unit for its European Infiniti lineup.) Another potential engine that might find its way into the Z at some point is the Mercedes Diesotto unit. Combining the best features of diesel and gas engines into one powerplant, the Diesotto is a 1.8-liter 4-cylinder generating 238 horsepower. But that engine is still in development and would likely be a long way off for any Z application.
On the gasoline hybrid front, the next Z had been expected to inherit Nissan's new V-6 hybrid powerplant set to debut in the Infiniti M shortly, but rumors now suggest the engine could instead be a version of the 3.5-liter V-6 hybrid from the S400.
Renault-Nissan head man Carlos Ghosn has reportedly been keeping a close eye on sports cars powered by hybrids, especially the Ferrari 599 hybrid concept and the Porsche 911 GT3 R hybrid, which proved its mettle during last month's Nurburgring 24-Hour event. Whether it turns out to be a diesel, hybrid, or a combination of both, Ghosn looks to be eyeing a similar blend of performance and efficiency for his next Z. Whatever happens, it likely won't be anytime soon as we don't expect to see the new car until late in calendar year 2012 at the earliest.
Mitsubishi's Lancer Evolution and Subaru's Impreza WRX have been archrivals on both the road and rally circuits for the better part of the past two decades, but with a host of stringent new efficiency and emissions regulations looming, like Nissan, the Japanese automakers are reportedly reexamining the missions of their potent performers. And those changes mean that we may never see the Evo and WRX battling on the same circuits again.
It was just over a month ago that we heard rumors that Mitsubishi was even considering canceling the next generation Evolution altogether! Well, you can breathe easy, because a source close to the company revealed that the Evo's R&D team is back in the design studio, but is reportedly taking the car in a totally new direction away from gasoline turbos and toward clean diesels. We hear it's much the same story for the WRX, which has prided itself on its now legendary all-wheel drive and turbocharged boxer engine combination.
Just last year at the Tokyo Motor Show, we mentioned that the next Evo would sit on a version of the PX-MiEV (SUV) concept's platform and employ its new plug-in hybrid system. Our source now tells us that while it will incorporate part of that hybrid system, engineers have switched strategies away from a gas hybrid and are now working on a turbocharged clean diesel hybrid that will generate prodigious torque and far better fuel economy. It's also expected to employ an upgraded version of the current Evo X's highly rated 4WD system with S-AWC boasting an integrated, electronically controlled steering, braking, and traction control combination.
Meanwhile, an insider tells us that the next Impreza WRX will be powered by an enhanced version of the 2.0-liter turbodiesel unit currently powering the Euro-spec Impreza. But unlike with the Mitsubishi, the Subaru will not employ a hybrid unit -- at least not initially. We're also told that Subaru does not have plans to abandon gasoline turbocharged engines, and is presently at work on a smaller capacity turbocharged 4-cylinder that will deliver cleaner CO2 emissions and better mileage.
Will the proposed radical shifts in engine philosophy for Japan's top two pocket rockets affect the buying habits of global customers? While Europeans fully appreciate the merits of diesels, fans in the U.S., Japan, and elsewhere will have more difficulty accepting oil-burners - especially from cars so closely associated with turbocharged gasoline power. And that fact is compounded by news leaking out of Mitsubishi that its next Evo will no longer compete in any form of motorsport, while the next WRX is said to be turning its focus to road racing only. Can these two cars rest on their laurels alone without the racing appeal? Taking away the competition aspect - not to mention moving toward diesel and hybrid motivation - could end up backfiring. At this point nothing is set in stone, however. We should know more in the next year or two as more information leaks out of Japan.
link here
http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...sel/index.html
hope its not a repost. what do you guys think?
07-12-10, 06:04 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
They wont make a diesel sports car. There is no power in a diesel at high rpm. The hybrids will show their faces because of the added economy as well as the added off the line torque. What sports car manufacturer wouldn't like to shave a few tenths off the 0-60 or qtr mile, as well as adding significant economy and efficiency
07-12-10, 07:12 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
We did have a thread about the EVO but since this includes the others we will leave it alone.
For one I applaud Nissan, Mitsu, Subie for still building these beast.
This thing is a beast at the track. They have won so much it not even funny.
BMW has a 335 d sporty car here.
Europe has TONS of sporty diesels.
Audi TT 2.0 diesel
The new Jag XF diesel might be the best in class
And the first V-12 diesel engine in a production car..
For one I applaud Nissan, Mitsu, Subie for still building these beast.
They wont make a diesel sports car. There is no power in a diesel at high rpm. The hybrids will show their faces because of the added economy as well as the added off the line torque. What sports car manufacturer wouldn't like to shave a few tenths off the 0-60 or qtr mile, as well as adding significant economy and efficiency
BMW has a 335 d sporty car here.
Europe has TONS of sporty diesels.
Audi TT 2.0 diesel
The new Jag XF diesel might be the best in class
And the first V-12 diesel engine in a production car..
07-12-10, 08:13 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
I mean a sports car for the street, and a real sports car not these cars with sporting intentions. I mean a Diesel ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati ,GTR, Vette, etc. It will not happen. Designers will go for a hybrid in a car like that before they do a diesel.
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07-13-10, 09:18 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Unlike the junk automotive diesels of 30 years ago, the ones today generally have a lot of torque at low rpm's (and you can feel it). But, unlike gas engines, diesels tend to run out of breath at higher RPMs, and their internal mechanicals require low redlines. The ultra-high compression ratios (roughly 20/1) necessary for compression-ignition also put a lot of stress on the block and bearings.
07-13-10, 10:17 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Unlike the junk automotive diesels of 30 years ago, the ones today generally have a lot of torque at low rpm's (and you can feel it). But, unlike gas engines, diesels tend to run out of breath at higher RPMs, and their internal mechanicals require low redlines. The ultra-high compression ratios (roughly 20/1) necessary for compression-ignition also put a lot of stress on the block and bearings.
07-13-10, 11:31 AM
#10
I don't really mind this idea THAT much. Hopefully they would still offer a "regular" gas version as well. In all honesty, I like the idea of a diesel better than a hybrid. I just wonder if going diesel would add much weight, that would be my main concern.
07-16-10, 12:16 PM
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I diesel block is certainly heavier. And that usually neccesitates stronger, heavier, more expensive suspension components. IIRC the 530d tested on Topgear was like 300 lbs. heavier than the standard 5 series.
07-16-10, 12:22 PM
#13
Lets not forget that diesels with a lot of low end torque are normally supercharged, so its not correct to compare them directly to NA petrol engines. Turbo charged petrol engines have lots of torque as well, I know it first hand.
What concerns me with new diesels, is high initial cost, too many components to keep emissions clean, and with the ridiculously high compression, once the piston rings and valve seals wear out a bit, what is that going to do to performance, economy and emissions?
What concerns me with new diesels, is high initial cost, too many components to keep emissions clean, and with the ridiculously high compression, once the piston rings and valve seals wear out a bit, what is that going to do to performance, economy and emissions?
07-16-10, 12:33 PM
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Mmmm. I believe that we discussed the high cost of urea refills not too long ago. Diesel, EV, or hybrid, there is no free lunch. But we're getting there.
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