mmarshall

With comparably low-powered AWD vehicles, especially those with a fixed or constant torque-split, it's partly, but not only, a matter of power-to-weight. The extra AWD components (differentials, CV/universal joints, drive shafts, etc...) add drag as well as weight. That, for example, accounts for the comparative sluggishness of the Lexus IS250AWD, which has, of course, 6 cylinders, but only 2.5L of displacement like many Subies.

With low-powered engines, a conventional three-pedal manual transmission also makes a noticeable difference, significantly increasing acceleration over conventional automatics. Newer, state-of-the-art automatics, CVTs and twin-clutch SMG/DSG automanuals, though, sometimes now equal or exceed traditional manuals in effficiency.

IS-SV

Yes agreed AWD has some impact, but all the examples given have poor power to weight ratios. The IS250 with RWD is not especially quick, it has only about 200 hp (versus 180 on the new CRV) and weighs over 3400 pounds, so it's no surprise that it's somewhat slow. Per the manufacturer (Lexus) the 0-60 acceleration only is worse by 0.4 of a second with the AWD version of the IS250, a minor difference. The IS350 with 306 hp weighs 3600 pounds for comparison purposes, it's quick.

The CRV and especially Subie NA 4 bangers are all slow with curb weights well over 3200 pounds and big frontal areas creating lots of aero drag (being tall wagons). Example: the 2wd version of the CRV is slow also.

Modern 6/7/8 trannies (not just CVTs and dual clutch) match and often exceed the acceleration in manual tranny cars today in lower/mid/high power applications. I see you mentioned that "state-of-the-art automatics" because these are becoming mainstream in all price ranges by the industry leaders (and expected with the emphasis on efficiency as well as EPA requirements across the board). In 2010 model year, the manual tranny is no longer the tool for better acceleration in most applications.

mmarshall

Are you talking about a manual or automatic RWD IS250 vs the AWD version?. It comes either way.



Yes, the days when conventional three-pedal manuals could be expected to give both better acceleration AND better mileage are either gone or fading fast. Nowadays, there is little if any difference, and sometimes the automatics/automanuals, particularly CVTs, come out ahead. The automatic "throttle-blippers" on some newer manual transmissions for smoother downshifts, and the devices that keep the RPM up during upshifts (for emissions reasons) also contribute to the lower mileage with conventional manuals.


What I meant by "State of the art" automatics includes torque converter lock-ups, overdrive gearing, multiple (6/7/8) gears, Grade Logic/Gear-Hold on hills, and, of course, electronic engine/transmission co-ordination for smooth shifts. Torque-converter lock-ups, though, are not necessarily a new device, having gone back to their introduction in 1978 American-designed Chrysler products.

mmarshall

Famous Last Words.

Intentions in the long run, often mean little or nothing. In high school, I didn't think I'd ever drive a Japanese-designed car....by 1984, after many quality headaches, I finally had it with American cars and bought my first Mazda. Then, I swore I'd never drive an "American" car again....and bought two plastic-body Saturns in the 1990s (though I only had one a very short time). I didn't think I'd ever have a brand-new Luxury/upmarket vehicle....then bought a new, bright-yellow Lexus IS300 in 2001. For years, I thought AWD was a waste of weight, gas, and money.....now I'm sold on them, at least for my area. I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture.

You may be a strong-willed person, but never say never....there is always a chance you could change your mind; you don't always know the future.

caddyowner

I had six kids. Some of my important criteria for selecting a family car back then:

- Does it hold everyone? (Eventually didn't need to worry about holding a spouse, too.)

- Is the third row far enough back to not hear normal conversation, but can still pick up screams?

- Is the second row close enough be able to reach back and make contact when they get too out of control?

- Can the interior be powerwashed?

LexFather

6 kids! Someone went to work.

What would be your vehicle of choice? I know you are shopping now.

caddyowner

For larger families, I still think a minivan is hard to beat. The sliding doors and flat floor make for easy entry / exit. I had a Dodge Caravan and it did a great job hauling kids. It was easier than either the Ford E150 Club Wagon or Chevy Suburban, which I also owned at different times. One of my daughters has 4 children and she loves her Caravan.

Now that my current wife and I are empty nesters, aside from the dog, the LS430 is just right. I have my Allante up for sale, and if it sells I may replace my Dakota chore truck for something used with AWD that is more reliable as a winter driver. (The Dakota will run for a number of years yet and I just had the tailgate rust repaired, but there seems to be strong demand for low-cost pickups right now.) I haven't started serious shopping yet, but it will be something I can easily help my wife transfer into from a wheelchair. Possibilities are an RX300 / 330, Taurus X, or one of the larger Subies. I'm in no rush.

BTW: The Traverse is too tall and the Flex has tall sides and short windows, which I don't like. All pickups are too tall in 4WD / AWD variants, except for the Baja that has a bed too small to bother with. All larger SUVs and most small SUVs are too tall. (I need to check out the RAV4, but I don't care for the big rear door.) I won't buy another SRX, too unreliable. The Element would almost work, except it's a bit tall and I'd have to see if there would be any way to swing my wife's legs into the car without her knees hitting the lower dash.

IS-SV

Good question, but it really doesn't matter. Both IS250 RWD manual and IS 250 RWD auto tranny versions have the same 0-60 acceleration times per the manufacturer (Lexus). And the manual version is slightly slower in the quarter mile than the auto verson (by 0.1 of a second).

The manual tranny is not available on AWD version of 250.

Note the gas mileage of AWD auto being better than RWD manual:

IS250 AWD (auto-only) 20/26
IS250 RWD (manual) 18/26

So in short the manual slows the car down by a small amount and worsens the gas mileage very significantly (3 mpg city/3 mpg highway).

IS-SV

Luv that requirement.

Wrangler and Element come to mind....