2 Separate reviews: Infiniti M, BMW 5
04-29-10, 07:34 AM
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2 Separate reviews: Infiniti M, BMW 5
Two reviews of competing cars. Both cars have their strengths and weaknesses. The reviews are far from what I consider useful but they are what they are. The Car And Driver review spends too much time editorializing about the Infiniti brand before the real review starts, IMO.
One other observation. Everyone seems to rag on the M's curvelinear interior design but I think it comes across as actually harmonious compared to the collision of geometric shapes inside the BMW.
2011 Infiniti M56 - Road Test
Control, Alt, Delete: While Infiniti decides what it is, the M’s computers decide what you’ll have for lunch.
BY AARON ROBINSON, PHOTOGRAPHY BY ROBERT KERIAN
Highs, Lows, and Verdict
Highs: 420 horses, an interior that finally befits the price, lovely to look at.
Lows: Odd steering, the V-6 is the better value, loaded with anti-fun software.
The Verdict: The chassis, styling, and power say go; the computers say whoa.[/I]
Pity Infiniti. After 21 years on the market and an amount of cash spent on advertising to at least equal this season’s Yankees payroll, Nissan’s upscale brand is still often misspelled with a “y.” One day last March, the Los Angeles Craigslist website had 79 ads for used “Infinity” vehicles.
Poor Infiniti. The brand lurches along, mainly on sales of the divine G sedan and coupe, but it’s quietly getting its clock cleaned by Acura, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW. Each of those last three brands outsells Infiniti by more than two to one.
Deck chairs have been rearranged. The brand dropped its saleproof Q45 flagship in 2006 and moved the mid-level M into the top spot. But that last M, bobtailed and chiseled and called the Nissan Fuga in Japan (where Infiniti doesn’t exist), couldn’t really move the needle. Carrying a $50,000 ticket, the V-8 Infiniti M45 drove well—witness comparison-test victories in ’05 and ’06—but it had the plain interior of, well, a Nissan. The M, in both V-6 and V-8 dress, currently accounts for just 10 percent of Infiniti sales. The superstar G supplies more than half.
Where is Infiniti headed in its quest for identity and success? Toward extroverted styling and greater horsepower, judging by the new M.
The 2011 M37 and M56 slide out of the product dispenser with essentially the same “FM” rear-drive platform as before but sheathed in new skin. The 114.2-inch wheelbase remains unchanged, as does the bountiful interior space. M37 prices hardly budge: The entry point rises only $450, to $47,115 for the base M37 equipped with a 330-hp, 3.7-liter V-6 from the Nissan 370Z.
The car being pummeled here is a $64,065, rear-drive, V-8–equipped M56 (all-wheel drive is available). It’s the base $58,415 M56—that’s $5400 more than last year, in part because navigation is now standard—fitted with the $3650 Sport package and the $2000 Sport Touring package (more about those forthwith).
The M is the most beguiling example yet of Infiniti’s latest, highly organic, almost halibiotic styling thrust. No angles were employed. From the bluff prow, the metal contorts over the skeleton like the tentacles of an octopus over a rock. In fact, various forms of swimming and wiggling ocean proteins are evoked in the profile—if you squint hard enough—all to alluring effect.
An Austrian rather partial to German cars was riding in the passenger seat during our test. He ran probing fingers all over the dash and door panels, pushed some buttons, pulled a few handles, and said, “Look at that: The Japanese are finally getting it right.” Indeed. The basic interior layout remains unchanged, with large gauges under a thick hood and a center navigation screen operated by a keyboard angled toward the ceiling.
But in the new M, the plastic doesn’t look so much like plastic as a sort of leatherish-like wrap, and nowhere do the eyes trip over some weed of cheapness, even in the back seat. Every millimeter has been combed through to ensure tight fits, low-gloss sheens, and the exactitude of perfectly aligned ornamental stitching.
Horsepower has long been an Infiniti selling point, and the M56 has a mustang ranch onboard. The V-8 has 95 more horses than before, and the car needs just 4.7 seconds to hit 60 mph, 0.8 second less than before. Don’t expect anything at this price, including the new 5-series, to be any quicker. The 14-inch front brakes of the Sport package bring 4060 pounds to a hasty halt in just 164 feet, excellent in this class.
Infiniti wants to be about handling as well. The Sport package slots in double-piston shocks and firmer springs, as well as 20-inch wheels wearing 245/40 Bridgestone Potenza RE050A summer tires. In the past, this also meant ride harshness, but here, Infiniti has again attacked a weakness. The 20-inchers roll over pavement breaks with an audible slap of rubber, and the ride is still crisp, but it is no longer jarring. We’re witnessing an evolutionary step here, toward the secret ride-and-handling balance that BMW has long profited from.
What prevents the M from passing for a grown-up G are a few odd traits. The Sport package includes an electric rear-steer system. Actually, “rear-steer system” slightly overstates it. The mechanism employs an electric motor mounted behind the rear differential to adjust the toe-in angles in back. Yes, it’s steering, but by no more than one degree. As before, it’s an in-phase type, meaning the rear wheels pivot in the same direction as the fronts, only at road speeds—it’s inert below 25 mph. The system, meant to hasten the helm response, felt hyperactive on occasion to this driver. The car can veer toward a corner’s inside line as if drawn by gravitational forces. The M is pulled around ruts, and it wanders on the freeway, always keen to explore other lanes and nuzzle with other cars. It’s a pity because the M’s grip and body control are solid, the basic chassis with its aluminum control arms up front and latticework of links in back well suited to hard play. Yet, even when you get comfortable tossing the car around with its highly kinetic wheel, the computer intervenes to prevent fun from breaking out.
All M cars now have a dial to select among four driving modes: “Eco” attempts to save gas by reducing throttle response and upshifting early; “snow,” even more so. “Standard” is the no-hurry mode, and “sport” is the hoon setting, with throttle response and shift strategies suited to fast getaways.
In every mode, the stability control is too intrusive, the threshold set so low that the brakes are fired and the throttle stunted just as the tires (and the driver) are coming up to temperature. Long, fast sweepers where the M should be hunkered down and stroking nicely near the limit are ruined as the panicky computer seizes control. There’s an off button, but we could never fully disable the system, and we shouldn’t have to. If Infiniti wants to run with the Germans, it has to think like them and give the driver more freedom to master the machine.
If you are of a more cautious nature, there’s always the $3000 Technology package. It wires the car with sensors and alarms to warn of cars in blind spots and when you’re straying across lane markings. The system will even work the brakes on one side to pull you away from danger on the other, and it has radar-monitored cruise control that automatically spikes the brakes if the M gets too close to the cars ahead.
When driving the M equipped with this package, rarely do 10 full seconds pass without the “Ding!” of a concerned chime, the flash of an early-warning light, or the jerk of brakes being applied by a diligent microprocessor. This option is strictly for people who fear getting out of bed and not for those who in any way value their sanity.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._m56-road_test
The ultimate executive saloon? Henry Catchpole reports on the new BMW 5-Series
What is it?
New 2010 BMW 5-Series with a fast and frugal six-cylinder diesel. 0-62mph is dispatched in just 6.3sec and yet it will do 45.6mpg on the combined cycle. It costs £37,100.
Technical highlights?
This car has the new optional eight-speed automatic gearbox (priced at £1495 without paddles, £1605 with). This auto ‘box combined with BMW’s Efficient Dynamics package achieves a phenomenal CO2 rating of 160g/km.
What’s it like to drive?
The engine is as fantastic as you would expect. BMW has long produced brilliant diesel powerplants (a 330d was the first diesel ever to make it into an eCoty contest) and it pulls as smoothly and cleanly as ever.
The chassis is less impressive, however. This particular car has the basic 5 Series set up with standard passive dampers and unfortunately it feels like the compromise that it is. Grip is good and you can get a decently relaxed flow going down a smooth road, but over bumps there is a thumpiness and wallow that certainly doesn’t smack of ‘The Ultimate Driving Machine’. The speed-sensitive steering doesn’t have any feel either, which exacerbates the feeling of piloting a very big car (which it is) with slightly hard-to-place extremities. As Ollie said ‘it feels and behaves more like a 7-Series’.
It would seem that you need to spec the optional £965 adaptive dampers, and possibly add an extra £1255 for the adaptive anti-roll bars too, to make the 5-Series drive as you would wish.
How does it compare?
At £37,100 for a completey un-optioned 530d SE the BMW is sitting squarely in Jaguar XF territory. For £37,730 you could have a 271bhp XF Diesel S. You can see how it fared against the last generation 5 Series here. And unfortunately for BMW the Jaguar is the more desirable, quicker, more dynamic and more pleasurable car. The only place the BMW wins is on economy and CO2 output.
Anything else I need to know?
The map for the satellite navigation is very cool – a 3D topographical display appears as you zoom out.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...0d_review.html
One other observation. Everyone seems to rag on the M's curvelinear interior design but I think it comes across as actually harmonious compared to the collision of geometric shapes inside the BMW.
2011 Infiniti M56 - Road Test
Control, Alt, Delete: While Infiniti decides what it is, the M’s computers decide what you’ll have for lunch.
BY AARON ROBINSON, PHOTOGRAPHY BY ROBERT KERIAN
Highs, Lows, and Verdict
Highs: 420 horses, an interior that finally befits the price, lovely to look at.
Lows: Odd steering, the V-6 is the better value, loaded with anti-fun software.
The Verdict: The chassis, styling, and power say go; the computers say whoa.[/I]
Pity Infiniti. After 21 years on the market and an amount of cash spent on advertising to at least equal this season’s Yankees payroll, Nissan’s upscale brand is still often misspelled with a “y.” One day last March, the Los Angeles Craigslist website had 79 ads for used “Infinity” vehicles.
Poor Infiniti. The brand lurches along, mainly on sales of the divine G sedan and coupe, but it’s quietly getting its clock cleaned by Acura, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW. Each of those last three brands outsells Infiniti by more than two to one.
Deck chairs have been rearranged. The brand dropped its saleproof Q45 flagship in 2006 and moved the mid-level M into the top spot. But that last M, bobtailed and chiseled and called the Nissan Fuga in Japan (where Infiniti doesn’t exist), couldn’t really move the needle. Carrying a $50,000 ticket, the V-8 Infiniti M45 drove well—witness comparison-test victories in ’05 and ’06—but it had the plain interior of, well, a Nissan. The M, in both V-6 and V-8 dress, currently accounts for just 10 percent of Infiniti sales. The superstar G supplies more than half.
Where is Infiniti headed in its quest for identity and success? Toward extroverted styling and greater horsepower, judging by the new M.
The 2011 M37 and M56 slide out of the product dispenser with essentially the same “FM” rear-drive platform as before but sheathed in new skin. The 114.2-inch wheelbase remains unchanged, as does the bountiful interior space. M37 prices hardly budge: The entry point rises only $450, to $47,115 for the base M37 equipped with a 330-hp, 3.7-liter V-6 from the Nissan 370Z.
The car being pummeled here is a $64,065, rear-drive, V-8–equipped M56 (all-wheel drive is available). It’s the base $58,415 M56—that’s $5400 more than last year, in part because navigation is now standard—fitted with the $3650 Sport package and the $2000 Sport Touring package (more about those forthwith).
The M is the most beguiling example yet of Infiniti’s latest, highly organic, almost halibiotic styling thrust. No angles were employed. From the bluff prow, the metal contorts over the skeleton like the tentacles of an octopus over a rock. In fact, various forms of swimming and wiggling ocean proteins are evoked in the profile—if you squint hard enough—all to alluring effect.
An Austrian rather partial to German cars was riding in the passenger seat during our test. He ran probing fingers all over the dash and door panels, pushed some buttons, pulled a few handles, and said, “Look at that: The Japanese are finally getting it right.” Indeed. The basic interior layout remains unchanged, with large gauges under a thick hood and a center navigation screen operated by a keyboard angled toward the ceiling.
But in the new M, the plastic doesn’t look so much like plastic as a sort of leatherish-like wrap, and nowhere do the eyes trip over some weed of cheapness, even in the back seat. Every millimeter has been combed through to ensure tight fits, low-gloss sheens, and the exactitude of perfectly aligned ornamental stitching.
Horsepower has long been an Infiniti selling point, and the M56 has a mustang ranch onboard. The V-8 has 95 more horses than before, and the car needs just 4.7 seconds to hit 60 mph, 0.8 second less than before. Don’t expect anything at this price, including the new 5-series, to be any quicker. The 14-inch front brakes of the Sport package bring 4060 pounds to a hasty halt in just 164 feet, excellent in this class.
Infiniti wants to be about handling as well. The Sport package slots in double-piston shocks and firmer springs, as well as 20-inch wheels wearing 245/40 Bridgestone Potenza RE050A summer tires. In the past, this also meant ride harshness, but here, Infiniti has again attacked a weakness. The 20-inchers roll over pavement breaks with an audible slap of rubber, and the ride is still crisp, but it is no longer jarring. We’re witnessing an evolutionary step here, toward the secret ride-and-handling balance that BMW has long profited from.
What prevents the M from passing for a grown-up G are a few odd traits. The Sport package includes an electric rear-steer system. Actually, “rear-steer system” slightly overstates it. The mechanism employs an electric motor mounted behind the rear differential to adjust the toe-in angles in back. Yes, it’s steering, but by no more than one degree. As before, it’s an in-phase type, meaning the rear wheels pivot in the same direction as the fronts, only at road speeds—it’s inert below 25 mph. The system, meant to hasten the helm response, felt hyperactive on occasion to this driver. The car can veer toward a corner’s inside line as if drawn by gravitational forces. The M is pulled around ruts, and it wanders on the freeway, always keen to explore other lanes and nuzzle with other cars. It’s a pity because the M’s grip and body control are solid, the basic chassis with its aluminum control arms up front and latticework of links in back well suited to hard play. Yet, even when you get comfortable tossing the car around with its highly kinetic wheel, the computer intervenes to prevent fun from breaking out.
All M cars now have a dial to select among four driving modes: “Eco” attempts to save gas by reducing throttle response and upshifting early; “snow,” even more so. “Standard” is the no-hurry mode, and “sport” is the hoon setting, with throttle response and shift strategies suited to fast getaways.
In every mode, the stability control is too intrusive, the threshold set so low that the brakes are fired and the throttle stunted just as the tires (and the driver) are coming up to temperature. Long, fast sweepers where the M should be hunkered down and stroking nicely near the limit are ruined as the panicky computer seizes control. There’s an off button, but we could never fully disable the system, and we shouldn’t have to. If Infiniti wants to run with the Germans, it has to think like them and give the driver more freedom to master the machine.
If you are of a more cautious nature, there’s always the $3000 Technology package. It wires the car with sensors and alarms to warn of cars in blind spots and when you’re straying across lane markings. The system will even work the brakes on one side to pull you away from danger on the other, and it has radar-monitored cruise control that automatically spikes the brakes if the M gets too close to the cars ahead.
When driving the M equipped with this package, rarely do 10 full seconds pass without the “Ding!” of a concerned chime, the flash of an early-warning light, or the jerk of brakes being applied by a diligent microprocessor. This option is strictly for people who fear getting out of bed and not for those who in any way value their sanity.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._m56-road_test
The ultimate executive saloon? Henry Catchpole reports on the new BMW 5-Series
What is it?
New 2010 BMW 5-Series with a fast and frugal six-cylinder diesel. 0-62mph is dispatched in just 6.3sec and yet it will do 45.6mpg on the combined cycle. It costs £37,100.
Technical highlights?
This car has the new optional eight-speed automatic gearbox (priced at £1495 without paddles, £1605 with). This auto ‘box combined with BMW’s Efficient Dynamics package achieves a phenomenal CO2 rating of 160g/km.
What’s it like to drive?
The engine is as fantastic as you would expect. BMW has long produced brilliant diesel powerplants (a 330d was the first diesel ever to make it into an eCoty contest) and it pulls as smoothly and cleanly as ever.
The chassis is less impressive, however. This particular car has the basic 5 Series set up with standard passive dampers and unfortunately it feels like the compromise that it is. Grip is good and you can get a decently relaxed flow going down a smooth road, but over bumps there is a thumpiness and wallow that certainly doesn’t smack of ‘The Ultimate Driving Machine’. The speed-sensitive steering doesn’t have any feel either, which exacerbates the feeling of piloting a very big car (which it is) with slightly hard-to-place extremities. As Ollie said ‘it feels and behaves more like a 7-Series’.
It would seem that you need to spec the optional £965 adaptive dampers, and possibly add an extra £1255 for the adaptive anti-roll bars too, to make the 5-Series drive as you would wish.
How does it compare?
At £37,100 for a completey un-optioned 530d SE the BMW is sitting squarely in Jaguar XF territory. For £37,730 you could have a 271bhp XF Diesel S. You can see how it fared against the last generation 5 Series here. And unfortunately for BMW the Jaguar is the more desirable, quicker, more dynamic and more pleasurable car. The only place the BMW wins is on economy and CO2 output.
Anything else I need to know?
The map for the satellite navigation is very cool – a 3D topographical display appears as you zoom out.
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...0d_review.html
04-29-10, 08:34 AM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Since the review praised the new M56 so much, but didn't include any images, I'll post a couple:
The article wasn't kidding. The interior DOES seem to be an upgrade.
The article wasn't kidding. The interior DOES seem to be an upgrade.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-29-10 at 09:16 PM.
04-29-10, 09:18 AM
#4
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Correct. But it's one of the first reviews of the new 5 we have. But one of the points of criticism seems to be the steering... something unexpected with a BMW. That is probably not too variable by the engine.
04-29-10, 09:43 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
C&D was accurate with it's intro.. 21 years and still struggling
Infiniti's problems, though of course complex, can be traced to the very first Q45 of 1990. It was too cold inside, too firm-riding, and too much of a sport-sedan.....buyers flocked to the plusher, softer Lexus LS400 instead. The 2Gen Q45 had a more-inviting, luxurious interior with wood-trim, and a softer suspension (and, if my memory is right, a Q45A Active-Suspension model), but, due to a HP drop with a smaller engine (down to 4.1 from 4.6L), did not attract many, if any, more sales than the first one did. The 3Gen model was an attempt at a sport/luxuty compromise, and still did not sell. Like it or not, the historical fact seems to be that once buyers got hooked on the LS series, they barely gave the Q45 a look.
So the M-series, by default if nothing else, ended up being the new flagships. There's been discussion in other CAR CHAT threads about whether Infiniti needs a new, larger flagship to replace the Q or not....you and I have already aired our thoughts on that.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-29-10 at 09:47 AM.
04-29-10, 10:07 AM
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Can't really compare an M5 with an M56, though....apples and oranges. The M5 is a purpose-built, no-nonsense, high-performance sedan. The M56, even with the Sport package, is essentially a mid/full-size sport/luxury car with a somewhat larger engine this year.
Infiniti's problems, though of course complex, can be traced to the very first Q45 of 1990. It was too cold inside, too firm-riding, and too much of a sport-sedan.....buyers flocked to the plusher, softer Lexus LS400 instead. The 2Gen Q45 had a more-inviting, luxurious interior with wood-trim, and a softer suspension (and, if my memory is right, a Q45A Active-Suspension model), but, due to a HP drop with a smaller engine (down to 4.1 from 4.6L), did not attract many, if any, more sales than the first one did. The 3Gen model was an attempt at a sport/luxuty compromise, and still did not sell. Like it or not, the historical fact seems to be that once buyers got hooked on the LS series, they barely gave the Q45 a look.
So the M-series, by default if nothing else, ended up being the new flagships. There's been discussion in other CAR CHAT threads about whether Infiniti needs a new, larger flagship to replace the Q or not....you and I have already aired our thoughts on that.
Infiniti's problems, though of course complex, can be traced to the very first Q45 of 1990. It was too cold inside, too firm-riding, and too much of a sport-sedan.....buyers flocked to the plusher, softer Lexus LS400 instead. The 2Gen Q45 had a more-inviting, luxurious interior with wood-trim, and a softer suspension (and, if my memory is right, a Q45A Active-Suspension model), but, due to a HP drop with a smaller engine (down to 4.1 from 4.6L), did not attract many, if any, more sales than the first one did. The 3Gen model was an attempt at a sport/luxuty compromise, and still did not sell. Like it or not, the historical fact seems to be that once buyers got hooked on the LS series, they barely gave the Q45 a look.
So the M-series, by default if nothing else, ended up being the new flagships. There's been discussion in other CAR CHAT threads about whether Infiniti needs a new, larger flagship to replace the Q or not....you and I have already aired our thoughts on that.
When its time for me to buy a "M" it will be a BMW for one. Two the Infiniti "M" was nice last model and is nice this model and I've reviewed it and don't disagree with C&D much. This is a good car but I was expecting to be blown away but maybe fanboys hyped it up too much, it merely met expectations.As for the history of Infiniti I haven't been wrong about the brand in my opinions on it since I joined this forum no matter how much some people disagree with it. C&D seems to agree.
Overall the Jag XF really seems like my new fav in this segment until we see what the next GS does.
The bottom line is the entire class is fantastic and this vehicle is a step over the last one.
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04-29-10, 02:21 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Good early reports, much appreciated.
BMW continues to soften the driver interface on it's mainstream cars and react more and more to the Benz and Lexus cars that compete.
Comments on the 5 extracted from the article:
"Grip is good and you can get a decently relaxed flow going down a smooth road, but over bumps there is a thumpiness and wallow that certainly doesn’t smack of ‘The Ultimate Driving Machine’. The speed-sensitive steering doesn’t have any feel either, which exacerbates the feeling of piloting a very big car (which it is) with slightly hard-to-place extremities. As Ollie said ‘it feels and behaves more like a 7-Series’."
BMW continues to soften the driver interface on it's mainstream cars and react more and more to the Benz and Lexus cars that compete.
Comments on the 5 extracted from the article:
"Grip is good and you can get a decently relaxed flow going down a smooth road, but over bumps there is a thumpiness and wallow that certainly doesn’t smack of ‘The Ultimate Driving Machine’. The speed-sensitive steering doesn’t have any feel either, which exacerbates the feeling of piloting a very big car (which it is) with slightly hard-to-place extremities. As Ollie said ‘it feels and behaves more like a 7-Series’."
04-29-10, 09:15 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
Overall the Jag XF really seems like my new fav in this segment until we see what the next GS does.
04-30-10, 07:15 AM
#12
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I don't know many people who have really pushed Infiniti....certainly not many on this forum. At one point (actually two) I was interested in both the 1Gen G20 and I35 (I liked both models), but ended up with a Lexus IS300 instead. But I certainly agree that Infiniti has not had the success that Lexus did.
04-30-10, 07:48 AM
#13
I'm a big Infiniti advocate but even I recognize and concede that the brand has been handled badly. It should be further along than it is today but they are still climbing uphill due to the errors of the past. But the past is the past. I'm still impressed with most of their newer products. I just hope they can more skillfully identify what the market desires and build products to satisfy those markets instead of building cars with the expectation of creating a new market. While vehicles like the FX and EX are competently and even, in some cases, brilliantly executed, they remain niche products with limited appeal and usability.
The EX is a whole other story all together- quite ugly, less space than a G35 sedan, and really no compelling reason to purchase one.
I hope that Infiniti can get it's SUV strategy together because their sedans and coupes are great.
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