Cracking Engine Blocks on 2006, 2007 and a select few 2008 Honda Civic's (non Si)
04-06-10, 09:14 AM
#61
Dysfunctional Veteran
Thread Starter
Complain to the Honda Consumer Affair and speak LOUDLY on the issue.
Honda is not in the wrong for only covering the short block if that's the problem. The head should not be replace because it's not 'defective'. The problem lies within the technician. Aluminum heads will warp if they are overheated enough. Any good tech knows the head should be inspected before putting back onto the engine block. On my last few headgasket installs, I had to mill the head and block clean to make an even surface otherwise the headgasket will not do its job properly. Thus her headgasket blew.
EDIT: Headgasket blowing a few days later after a new block has been installed is a high indication of technician error.
Honda is not in the wrong for only covering the short block if that's the problem. The head should not be replace because it's not 'defective'. The problem lies within the technician. Aluminum heads will warp if they are overheated enough. Any good tech knows the head should be inspected before putting back onto the engine block. On my last few headgasket installs, I had to mill the head and block clean to make an even surface otherwise the headgasket will not do its job properly. Thus her headgasket blew.
EDIT: Headgasket blowing a few days later after a new block has been installed is a high indication of technician error.
Last edited by ArmyofOne; 04-06-10 at 09:49 AM.
04-06-10, 01:07 PM
#64
Lexus Champion
Your story wouldn't make me feel any more confident in Honda's good will if I were a Civic owner.
04-06-10, 02:24 PM
#65
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For those saying that blocks covered under the TSB are not defective, you have given NO plausible explanation as to how that makes sense.
I will repeat again, it makes NO SENSE for Honda to cover blocks under a TSB that are perfectly fine. Honda would NOT waste time and money covering perfectly sound blocks with a TSB, and having to replace them.
If the blocks are covered under the TSB, then that means they are vulnerable and susceptible to cracks. That doesn't mean it will happen, it simply means it can happen, and it means that those blocks do have a defect in the aluminum or the way they were manufactured.
If you don't believe OCD, why don't you contact Honda yourself, or find out yourself. This is not a recall, so Honda is doing this quietly and silently.
The Toyota MZ sludge issue was different. It was not a defective engine design, or defective manufacturing. If oil changes on the 3.0L V6 were done often and in a timely manner, sludge DID NOT occur. It's as simple as that. Almost all of the engines with sludge happened due to owner or shop negligence, leaving too long of a gap between oil changes.
Despite this, Toyota did eventually incur a tremendous cost of replacing engines and offering extended warranties.
Toyota minimized this problem with the GR V6 engine. They made it better able to tolerate long gaps between oil changes.
The fact is though, MOST engines, especially older engines will sludge up if you don't do oil changes in a timely manner.
Not a safety concern? Are you kidding? You sound as if you have the same attitude as Honda executives 
.
What if this happens on the highway while someone is driving, and the car simply loses power?
So you want a hard copy for information that is being kept quiet by Honda, YET you are not willing to put in the effort to find the information? You just want the information handed to you, otherwise you won't believe it?
A fuel line problem is NOT as bad in my opinion as cracking engine blocks. Why is that so hard to understand?
I will repeat again, it makes NO SENSE for Honda to cover blocks under a TSB that are perfectly fine. Honda would NOT waste time and money covering perfectly sound blocks with a TSB, and having to replace them.
If the blocks are covered under the TSB, then that means they are vulnerable and susceptible to cracks. That doesn't mean it will happen, it simply means it can happen, and it means that those blocks do have a defect in the aluminum or the way they were manufactured.
How many pedals have they replaced compared to the amount of engine Honda has found defected? Let's not forget Toyota at one point replaced 3.0L V6 engines due to sludge problems, and we know it was blown way out of proportion relative to the amount of blocks that were made.
Despite this, Toyota did eventually incur a tremendous cost of replacing engines and offering extended warranties.
Toyota minimized this problem with the GR V6 engine. They made it better able to tolerate long gaps between oil changes.
The fact is though, MOST engines, especially older engines will sludge up if you don't do oil changes in a timely manner.
It's not going to get attention because it's not a safety concern. No one got killed in it, so the media like they are, aren't going to make a big deal out of it. Will you not be satisfied until Honda gets national news or something? It's not a recall. And when I'm talking about free passes, I'm not talking about one from the government/media/blogs. I'm talking about free passes from you.
.What if this happens on the highway while someone is driving, and the car simply loses power?
A fuel line problem is NOT as bad in my opinion as cracking engine blocks. Why is that so hard to understand?
04-06-10, 02:34 PM
#66
Lexus Champion
The Toyota MZ sludge issue was different. It was not a defective engine design, or defective manufacturing. If oil changes on the 3.0L V6 were done often and in a timely manner, sludge DID NOT occur. It's as simple as that. Almost all of the engines with sludge happened due to owner or shop negligence, leaving too long of a gap between oil changes.
If 'x' oil change habits will leave you with a perfectly reliable engine in 99.9% of cars on the road, but in a Toyota V6 it'll leave you needing an engine replacement, then you can't just blame the user. Sure the manual might specify 3000 mile oil change intervals, but that's a CYA measure and by most standards extreme overkill. The manual also might say to keep your tires at 32 psi... so if you let one hit 28 PSI is it your fault if you suffer a blow out due to being 4 psi under?
Certain reasonable tolerances are to be expected from modern vehicles.
With all that said I'd still rather deal with the sludge issue since at least I know I can change my oil constantly and keep things running. It seems that this issue with Honda is almost at random.
Last edited by Threxx; 04-06-10 at 02:38 PM.
04-06-10, 02:57 PM
#67
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Sure you'll get varying degrees of sludge in any engine depending on driving conditions, oil type, maintenance habits, etc... but the MZ series engine was far far more prone to it than the average engine or than was considered normal.
If 'x' oil change habits will leave you with a perfectly reliable engine in 99.9% of cars on the road, but in a Toyota V6 it'll leave you needing an engine replacement, then you can't just blame the user. Sure the manual might specify 3000 mile oil change intervals, but that's a CYA measure and by most standards extreme overkill. The manual also might say to keep your tires at 32 psi... so if you let one hit 28 PSI is it your fault if you suffer a blow out due to being 4 psi under?
Certain reasonable tolerances are to be expected from modern vehicles.
With all that said I'd still rather deal with the sludge issue since at least I know I can change my oil constantly and keep things running. It seems that this issue with Honda is almost at random.
If 'x' oil change habits will leave you with a perfectly reliable engine in 99.9% of cars on the road, but in a Toyota V6 it'll leave you needing an engine replacement, then you can't just blame the user. Sure the manual might specify 3000 mile oil change intervals, but that's a CYA measure and by most standards extreme overkill. The manual also might say to keep your tires at 32 psi... so if you let one hit 28 PSI is it your fault if you suffer a blow out due to being 4 psi under?
Certain reasonable tolerances are to be expected from modern vehicles.
With all that said I'd still rather deal with the sludge issue since at least I know I can change my oil constantly and keep things running. It seems that this issue with Honda is almost at random.
You sort of contradicted yourself there. Just because "x" oil change habits apply to many or most engines on the road, does NOT mean they apply to ALL engines on the road. It is short-sighted and naive to think that way. This is in fact how some owners with the MZ V6 thought, and neglected the owner's manual.
The point is, if people followed the owner's manual, there wouldn't be sludge. Even if the owner's manual suggestions seemed like overkill, following them wouldn't cause harm or problems for the car, which is the point. The owner's manual exists for a reason.
Yes reasonable tolerances are expected, and that is why I mentioned the GR engine was designed for more reasonable tolerances and limits in terms of oil changes compared to the MZ.
04-06-10, 03:08 PM
#68
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Okay guys lets not make this personal and the topic is the Engine Block issue on Civics, not any Toyota, Hyundai or any other brands issues.
The O.P does own a Civic and started the thread, he has no angle here and is a respected member.
The O.P does own a Civic and started the thread, he has no angle here and is a respected member.
04-06-10, 05:03 PM
#69
Dysfunctional Veteran
Thread Starter
Thanks Mike! 
Look guys, All I was trying to do is get the info out there. I am not bashing honda. I am not bashing toyota. So toyota had some gas pedal recalls. Fixed the problem, right? Hopefully Honda will do the same here. At the very least, I alerted 3 people about this issue, who didnt already know.
If it were just 1 person, it would be worth it to make the thread. There are people out there who own other cars, not JUST Lexus. and If Lexus is the only thing you will ever own, I applaud you. I however, am not that kind of person. I like variety, and I realize that other carmakers have ALOT to offer.
It is my personal opinion that EVERY Civic owner in the HOA Database should be made aware of this issue. Send out a letter, make it clear it could never happen, but urge people to get their car checked out as soon as possible.
There wasnt even that. That coupled with their lack of cooperation in working with people on repairs that cost over 1/4 the value of the car...to me that is worse than the flaw itself.
Look guys, All I was trying to do is get the info out there. I am not bashing honda. I am not bashing toyota. So toyota had some gas pedal recalls. Fixed the problem, right? Hopefully Honda will do the same here. At the very least, I alerted 3 people about this issue, who didnt already know.
If it were just 1 person, it would be worth it to make the thread. There are people out there who own other cars, not JUST Lexus. and If Lexus is the only thing you will ever own, I applaud you. I however, am not that kind of person. I like variety, and I realize that other carmakers have ALOT to offer.
It is my personal opinion that EVERY Civic owner in the HOA Database should be made aware of this issue. Send out a letter, make it clear it could never happen, but urge people to get their car checked out as soon as possible.
There wasnt even that. That coupled with their lack of cooperation in working with people on repairs that cost over 1/4 the value of the car...to me that is worse than the flaw itself.
04-06-10, 06:08 PM
#70
Pole Position
Also, Honda isn't "covering" them. It's a TSB, not a recall. A TSB is simply a memo to the dealer on what to keep an eye out for on specific cars, and if seen, how to fix them. Customers aren't notified of TSB's. In most cases A TSB repair is only covered under the factory warranty only. In rare cases, a manufacturer will extend the warranty on a TSB issue but only on that part, not the entire car.
04-08-10, 10:35 AM
#71
Lexus Champion
I just noticed the TSB is dated July 2008????????????
strange we never heard a peep about this until 2 years later???
strange we never heard a peep about this until 2 years later???
Last edited by bagwell; 04-08-10 at 10:45 AM.
04-08-10, 11:05 AM
#72
The Toyota MZ sludge issue was different. It was not a defective engine design, or defective manufacturing. If oil changes on the 3.0L V6 were done often and in a timely manner, sludge DID NOT occur. It's as simple as that. Almost all of the engines with sludge happened due to owner or shop negligence, leaving too long of a gap between oil changes.
Despite this, Toyota did eventually incur a tremendous cost of replacing engines and offering extended warranties.
Despite this, Toyota did eventually incur a tremendous cost of replacing engines and offering extended warranties.
Toyota minimized this problem with the GR V6 engine. They made it better able to tolerate long gaps between oil changes.
The fact is though, MOST engines, especially older engines will sludge up if you don't do oil changes in a timely manner.
The fact is though, MOST engines, especially older engines will sludge up if you don't do oil changes in a timely manner.
Not a safety concern? Are you kidding? You sound as if you have the same attitude as Honda executives .
What if this happens on the highway while someone is driving, and the car simply loses power?
.What if this happens on the highway while someone is driving, and the car simply loses power?
Anything can go wrong, but you aren't going to die if the engine block cracks. If a wheel falls off, or a fuel line ruptures, that could be a bigger issue. How many stories have you heard about someone dying because their car overheated? Worse case I've seen is someone pulling along side of the road sitting there while the tow truck comes.
So you want a hard copy for information that is being kept quiet by Honda, YET you are not willing to put in the effort to find the information? You just want the information handed to you, otherwise you won't believe it?
A fuel line problem is NOT as bad in my opinion as cracking engine blocks. Why is that so hard to understand?
04-08-10, 11:09 AM
#73
There are so many TSBs for every car. It's not something they publicize. If you have an issue, you bring it to the dealership to get it inspected. I know for my own car, I have over 20 TSB that I did not know of until recently. My guess is that in 2008, there weren't enough engine cracks to be a concern.
04-08-10, 11:17 AM
#74
Thanks Mike!
Look guys, All I was trying to do is get the info out there. I am not bashing honda. I am not bashing toyota. So toyota had some gas pedal recalls. Fixed the problem, right? Hopefully Honda will do the same here. At the very least, I alerted 3 people about this issue, who didnt already know.
Look guys, All I was trying to do is get the info out there. I am not bashing honda. I am not bashing toyota. So toyota had some gas pedal recalls. Fixed the problem, right? Hopefully Honda will do the same here. At the very least, I alerted 3 people about this issue, who didnt already know.
It is my personal opinion that EVERY Civic owner in the HOA Database should be made aware of this issue. Send out a letter, make it clear it could never happen, but urge people to get their car checked out as soon as possible.
