mmarshall

That's true, but only to an extent. Smooth, continuous traffic flow is indeed safer, but ONLY at moderate speeds. If you have everybody more or less doing the same speeds at too high a rate (75 - 80 MPH, or higher), that's fine for people already ON the Interstate, but it can make it VERY difficult for people entering/exiting the highway if they have to accelerate or brake suddenly on the exit ramps. Not everyone drives Corvettes or Porsches that can accelerate and brake suddenly on those exit ramps....slower-accelerating cars trying to mix in with excessively fast-flowing traffic is not a good recipe for safety. But, of course, if most of the traffic is moving at, say, 60-70 MPH, merging traffic on the entrance ramps is able to do it much safer.

It also depends on the trafic density. Generally, the lower the traffic density, the safer the flow becomes at high speeds.....you have more space, of course, between cars for merging traffic to cut in and out.

Many experienced traffic engineers have studied the so-called "85th-percentile" traffic-flow principle and detail, and, for those reasons, have rejected it at higher speeds.

IS-SV

Yes very common in CA, we can't be bothered to lift off the gas pedal at those speeds exactly as you described.

(One thing to keep in mind is typical speedo error at highway speeds of about 3-4% that leaves a small cushion.)

mmarshall

Larger-than-standard wheels or tires, if they affect the outside rolling diameter of the tires, can also compound that natural error by making the speedometer/odometer read low.

IS-SV

Of course, the CL enthusiasts here know that and use correct tools in determining outside rolling diameter when making tire selections (to match OEM rolling diameters).

The point of my comment is most OEM speedo setups are about 3-4% optomistic.

IS-SV

Thanks for the spelling fix.

Infra

iTrader: (1)

Atlanta has a major problem with this due in part to how their HOV lanes are implemented - at any time you can merge into or out of the HOV, it's just painted white lines separating it from the normal lanes. Obviously this causes a lot of slow drivers, who would otherwise be out of the faster lanes of travel, to frequently be in those lanes.

Corey140

Yes, Yes, Yes!

One of the biggest damn pet peeves here. How the hell are you going make a left turn, if you are behind the damn line?!?

The left lane is bad here but it hasn't been too bad lately. It does get annoying when you are coming up and folks just sit there or the toe to toe driving...

Incorrect. You can only get out of the HOV lane when the lines break. It is illegal to get out of the HOV lane unless the lines are broken. Not that people obey the law...

IS350jet

Here, in south Florida, you can pass cops at any speed (literally). It's the State Troopers you have to look out for. Most municipal cops driving on the highway are just commuting to or from the office and aren't the slightest bit interested in speeders. Oh yea, cop cars here are considered "company cars" and cops take them home when their shift is over.

LexFather

It is horrid here. The amount of asinine drivers in the fast lane is just ridiculous. Its sad to see people making all sorts of maneuvers to go around them.

tex2670

Same here in PA, except PA has this law, AND SIGNS ON THE HIGHWAYS telling slower traffic to keep right. There's no enforcement, and the law is totally worthless.

IS-SV

Same problem with same signs in CA. US drivers are so lame, often with the skills of a crash-test dummy.

mmarshall

We can all talk.....and debate......this issue over and over again (and we certainly have in the past and present) , but I don't think it's EVER going to be truly solved, even with the proposed GA bill and other bills like it, until the issue of speed limits vs. those in the left lane who want to substantially exceed them is resolved. As long as you have laws limiting speeds on public roads (even in the left lane), bills like this, which demand that those doing at or near the limit in the left lane pull over for those who want to go faster, are going to be in conflict with existing speed limit laws. I just don't see any way around this potential conflict, with the system as it is. But there ARE solutions......which I'll get to, below, in a minute.

Yes, these laws (and customs) work in Europe, but that is because much of Europe has either much higher speed limits than we do, or, as in the case of sections of the German Autobahn, no limits at all. So, in Europe, yes, those in the left lane driving at American-style speed limits ARE legally blocking those who want to drive faster....and, yes, should move over. But, see.....THAT's the difference. In Europe, you CAN legally drive at those much higher limits (if road/traffic conditions allow). Here. you can't. In America, if someone in the left lane DOES pulls over for you and you just keep going your merry way at 90 MPH, you're going to pay if a cop catches you. You can't say to the cop or judge...... "Officer", or "Your Honor" , "this guy pulled over for me so I could do 20 MPH over the limit" (which, in may states, under current laws, is legally reckless driving). Speeding is speeding, regardless of who is in front of you in the left lane and who isn't. But, Europe, of course, you CAN say that...because the limit is sometimes 90 MPH (or higher).

So.....the solution (in America)? As I see it, one of two things. Either forget about left-lane "pull-over laws" altogether, or just have a variable speed limit (or no speed limit) which takes traffic and road conditions into account. Although I'm not a speed demon by any means, on some stretches of Interstate (especially in Plains/Western states), I agree that some of the fixed posted limits are probably too low. They were instituted back in the days (early 1970s) when you had mostly big, V8 gas-guszzlers on the road, with poor aerodynamics/efficiency, getting 10-15 MPG, and lower speeds resulted in substantial fuel savings. That is not the case today...when even big V8s get well over 20 MPG at constant, highway speeds. And, obviously, a clear, straight, dry Interstate can safely tolerate higher average speeds than one that is rainy, snowy, icy, foggy, or clogged with traffic. That's the way it was in Montana for some years........there was no single posted limit on the Interstates, and actual speed "enforcement" (i.e. tickets) was determined by state troopers according to prevaling road conditions. I'd be for a system like that, if other states would adopt it.

IS-SV

Not true in most of Europe. These laws (and customs) work in Europe because of the difference in driver education and skill levels combined with related laws. American drivers are often unskilled, poorly trained, ignorant and arrogant.

But yes I know the debate goes on here, blah, blah, blah...................................

mmarshall

Still, the main difference between America and Europe is the higher rural, limited-access highway speed limits there, although the few areas in Germany where is no limit at allon the Autobahns seem to be shrinking as traffic and population keep growing. It is in Germany where the pull-over laws and left-only to-pass rule traditionally work best, because that's where the greatest speed differential between lanes is. America complicates things with speed limits generally in the 55-80 MPH range for all of the lanes.

I agree with you that the arguement on this matter has gotten excessively long. I've made my point (as have some other posters); I respect the opinions of those who disagree, and I will probably get out of the thread now.

Byprodrive

iTrader: (1)

and most highways were only 2 lanes in both directions which is the only time this law is needed & I believe the original intent of laws like this