Bloomberg: VW Profit Plunges 86% on Price Cuts, Audi Sales Decline
11-02-09, 07:19 AM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
As extreme as your point of view is, I must say I agree with it. I look at a 2010 Prius over the weekend with a family member and I would not believe hoe cheap the ineterior have gotten. The older gen prius already has a cheap interior, but it looks like they found more ways to go cheap in the new Prius. One day, Toyota is going to have to put some decent interial material in their cars and just bite the bullet and raise the price. Cost cutting year after year will eventualy catch up with them.
On your other point of VW's new adventure to create an American land yacht. I really think VW, just like Toyota, knows where their bread and butter is. VW may make a few models that are has a softer ride, but it will not be across their whole lineup.
On your other point of VW's new adventure to create an American land yacht. I really think VW, just like Toyota, knows where their bread and butter is. VW may make a few models that are has a softer ride, but it will not be across their whole lineup.
Having also experience a new Prius, the interior I'll never be fond of b/c of the speedometer placement but I know the money went in the ENGINEERING not the interior. I agree its not a Bentley but its not horrendous and the design is quite original and clever. I also drove a HS 250 this weekend and if you want a nicer interior, you can get that at the expense of MPG.
11-02-09, 07:23 AM
#47
Well not sure how this turned into a CAmry bashfest but I disagree. I just had more experience in my cousins 09 Camry SE, loaded. Wonderful car. The interior is fine, no its not a Bentley but not nearly as bad as some make it to be. The car is built solid, has tons of room, its quiet, looks good, drives nicely with less roll and plushness of a base model. A Camry hybrid is a great car as well.
Having also experience a new Prius, the interior I'll never be fond of b/c of the speedometer placement but I know the money went in the ENGINEERING not the interior. I agree its not a Bentley but its not horrendous and the design is quite original and clever. I also drove a HS 250 this weekend and if you want a nicer interior, you can get that at the expense of MPG.
Having also experience a new Prius, the interior I'll never be fond of b/c of the speedometer placement but I know the money went in the ENGINEERING not the interior. I agree its not a Bentley but its not horrendous and the design is quite original and clever. I also drove a HS 250 this weekend and if you want a nicer interior, you can get that at the expense of MPG.
11-02-09, 07:26 AM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
. My G/F liked it, I thought it was odd but like a CVT and other "new" items, surely after driving it a few times I would get used to it. It was "different" which was appealing but also unappealing at the same time.
11-02-09, 07:28 AM
#49
I didn't say I liked it, I said it was a better quality piece than the Prius . My G/F liked it, I thought it was odd but like a CVT and other "new" items, surely after driving it a few times I would get used to it. It was "different" which was appealing but also unappealing at the same time.
. My G/F liked it, I thought it was odd but like a CVT and other "new" items, surely after driving it a few times I would get used to it. It was "different" which was appealing but also unappealing at the same time.
What do you think about the design of that piece?
11-02-09, 07:31 AM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Its not the first time in the car and I like it in lighter colors for one. Also I do like the remote touch as without it, you get a storage compartment. The models I looked at were "Premium package" with wood. Overall I prefer the Prius design but I prefer the HS materials. The stitching is nice and it felt kind of like the 1st gen RX with the dash. The small shifter was lol as the push button Park. It takes a lot of observation and getting familiar with.
Overall I prefer the traditional interior of an IS or GS.
Overall I prefer the traditional interior of an IS or GS.
11-02-09, 07:35 AM
#51
Its not the first time in the car and I like it in lighter colors for one. Also I do like the remote touch as without it, you get a storage compartment. The models I looked at were "Premium package" with wood. Overall I prefer the Prius design but I prefer the HS materials. The stitching is nice and it felt kind of like the 1st gen RX with the dash. The small shifter was lol as the push button Park. It takes a lot of observation and getting familiar with.
Overall I prefer the traditional interior of an IS or GS.
Overall I prefer the traditional interior of an IS or GS.
11-02-09, 07:37 AM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
We looked at ESs too, Lexus is pretty slick having 3 very different vehicles in the same price range. My G/F clearly noticed the difference in all 3 and likes all 3. The IS was very small but the drive was great, the HS was noticeably bigger to her and the ES room she fell in love with.
11-02-09, 07:46 AM
#53
Yes, the ES as well.We looked at ESs too, Lexus is pretty slick having 3 very different vehicles in the same price range. My G/F clearly noticed the difference in all 3 and likes all 3. The IS was very small but the drive was great, the HS was noticeably bigger to her and the ES room she fell in love with.
We looked at ESs too, Lexus is pretty slick having 3 very different vehicles in the same price range. My G/F clearly noticed the difference in all 3 and likes all 3. The IS was very small but the drive was great, the HS was noticeably bigger to her and the ES room she fell in love with.I played on Edmunds pricing and loaded up a HS with options to a $49K sticker.
A lot of coin for that car.
11-02-09, 07:48 AM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
Let me apologize in advance if this sounds like a Toyota bash fest to some. It is not, it is just my opinion of the Camry and Prius. These two cars have some very good attribute to them, in my attempt to keep this post short, I will not mention them.
While my experience with the two Camry Hybrid is not too extensive. We have two of them at work and two last gen Prius as well. Both Camrys are about a year old, both have rattle problems and a lot of hard plastics. The two Prius we have at work, the interior is ok, but should be better for a $30000 car, and I know most of the money went into the power train design, but none the less, it should be better. To my surprise, the newer gen Prius use even cheaper material, very disappointing for a $30000 car. As for the Camry SE. it handles pretty good for a Camry, but the ride is too stiff for its handling capability.
While my experience with the two Camry Hybrid is not too extensive. We have two of them at work and two last gen Prius as well. Both Camrys are about a year old, both have rattle problems and a lot of hard plastics. The two Prius we have at work, the interior is ok, but should be better for a $30000 car, and I know most of the money went into the power train design, but none the less, it should be better. To my surprise, the newer gen Prius use even cheaper material, very disappointing for a $30000 car. As for the Camry SE. it handles pretty good for a Camry, but the ride is too stiff for its handling capability.
11-02-09, 11:03 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So please tell me, is there some sort of factual basis behind "VW focusing on quantity of quality", or is that one one analyst believes, based on an income and revenue expectation thay by all accounts marginally missed their expected metrics? The answer is very clear. Oh, and the products clearly speak for themselves. The Jetta and Pasast are clearly better constructed vehicles than a cheaper Corolla or Camry. I don't give a rats as about reliability, in terms of material quality, those two flat out beat the latter two. That's what VW is known for - world class build quality, especially on the interior. You pay for what you get, and you pay more. You can go all "you're comparing apples to oranges" - No, I'm comparing what both sell at my local dealership in the same class - so be it.
As far as addressing the financial picture, remember that Toyota used to have nearly $90 billion in cash reserves and is now down to nearly $19 Billion. Don't kid yourself - all of the doom and gloom behind the new CEO's words was very real. The company has short term liabilities that are on par with their assets, and it's the cash reserves which are keeping them afloat. How much did GM have when they admitted they could be headed to Ch. 11? $11 Billion. Now don't twist my words and say I'm implying they are on the same level that GM was on pre- Ch. 11 because they aren't even remotely close, but to imply the company, which continues to loose hundreds of millions of dollars in each fiscal quarter, is better off than the current state that the VW Group finds itself in (posting hundred million dollar figures in the black) is not realistic.
As far as addressing the financial picture, remember that Toyota used to have nearly $90 billion in cash reserves and is now down to nearly $19 Billion. Don't kid yourself - all of the doom and gloom behind the new CEO's words was very real. The company has short term liabilities that are on par with their assets, and it's the cash reserves which are keeping them afloat. How much did GM have when they admitted they could be headed to Ch. 11? $11 Billion. Now don't twist my words and say I'm implying they are on the same level that GM was on pre- Ch. 11 because they aren't even remotely close, but to imply the company, which continues to loose hundreds of millions of dollars in each fiscal quarter, is better off than the current state that the VW Group finds itself in (posting hundred million dollar figures in the black) is not realistic.
? Are you seriously implying that there is no factual basis that quantity is a priority for VW over quality?You constantly make this comparison between the Jetta and Passat compared to the Corolla and Camry, and frankly it's getting ridiculous. Yes the Jetta and Passat have better material quality than the Corolla and Camry. They better though, because the Passat costs over $7000 more than a Camry when looking at base prices, and the Jetta costs over $2000 more than a Corolla, looking at base prices. Frankly, it would be downright embarassing and humiliating if the VW models *didn't* have better material quality.
VW is currently undergoing the process of acquiring Porsche, which will cost them billions of dollars. VW also is very interested in acquiring the MAN conglomerate, and also possibly acquiring a stake in Suzuki.
VW is buying up and acquiring brands as if it was shopping at some sort of car brand supermarket.
VW is building a gigantic new factory in the US, the point of which must be questioned. This gigantic factory has a huge capacity, and no doubt VW is predicting a huge sales increase in order to keep the plant running at full capacity. If such predicted sales increase does not happen, VW will very likely be dealing with an under-utilized plant.
VW is also planning to add new "Americanized" models to it's North American lineup, that will be de-contented and cheaper in order to achieve VW's goals of higher volume.
Further, VW plans to expand the Porsche lineup and make Porsche a pseudo-luxury brand.
All of these facts CLEARLY indicate quantity is a high priority for VW right now, more so than quality. For any major automaker, only one thing can be a high priority. You cannot for example realistically have a major automaker have *both* quality and quantity as high priorities, as it would not be possible in terms of both human resources as well as financial resources. Such a thing would only hypothetically be possible with unlimited human and financial resources.
Financial results are only a small part of this.
Whether you care or not, and whether you like it or not, fact is reliability and durability are still *aspects* of overall quality. Reliability and durability are indicative of overall quality.
As for Toyota's financials, you like to pull numbers out of thin air don't you? Show me proof of your numbers. 19 Billion in cash, short-term liabilities on par with their assets? These are nowhere close to actual facts
.Here is my proof of Toyota's financial details, where is yours?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=TM&annual
Pay particular attention to "Cash And Cash Equivalents" "Total Current Assets", "Total Current Liabilities", "Total Assets", "Total Liabilities", and "Net Tangible Assets".
.So the acquisition of Porsche, possible acquisition of MAN, a possible stake in Suzuki is not enough for you? How about the gigantic new plant VW is building in the US, as well as the "Americanization" of VW's North American lineup to achieve higher sales quantity? Then there is the planned expansion of the Porsche lineup.
Is this enough "confirmation", or do you still refuse to believe that VW is aiming for quantity right now?
11-02-09, 11:06 AM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me apologize in advance if this sounds like a Toyota bash fest to some. It is not, it is just my opinion of the Camry and Prius. These two cars have some very good attribute to them, in my attempt to keep this post short, I will not mention them.
While my experience with the two Camry Hybrid is not too extensive. We have two of them at work and two last gen Prius as well. Both Camrys are about a year old, both have rattle problems and a lot of hard plastics. The two Prius we have at work, the interior is ok, but should be better for a $30000 car, and I know most of the money went into the power train design, but none the less, it should be better. To my surprise, the newer gen Prius use even cheaper material, very disappointing for a $30000 car. As for the Camry SE. it handles pretty good for a Camry, but the ride is too stiff for its handling capability.
While my experience with the two Camry Hybrid is not too extensive. We have two of them at work and two last gen Prius as well. Both Camrys are about a year old, both have rattle problems and a lot of hard plastics. The two Prius we have at work, the interior is ok, but should be better for a $30000 car, and I know most of the money went into the power train design, but none the less, it should be better. To my surprise, the newer gen Prius use even cheaper material, very disappointing for a $30000 car. As for the Camry SE. it handles pretty good for a Camry, but the ride is too stiff for its handling capability.
11-02-09, 12:29 PM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
You constantly make this comparison between the Jetta and Passat compared to the Corolla and Camry, and frankly it's getting ridiculous. Yes the Jetta and Passat have better material quality than the Corolla and Camry. They better though, because the Passat costs over $7000 more than a Camry when looking at base prices, and the Jetta costs over $2000 more than a Corolla, looking at base prices. Frankly, it would be downright embarassing and humiliating if the VW models *didn't* have better material quality.
11-02-09, 12:55 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While the Passat 4 cyl may have more power, the Camry 4 cyl gets better fuel economy. Not necessarily "better" in the eyes of many consumers. The Camry also offers the V6 which blows away the Passat 4 cyl in terms of performance.
Comparably-equipped, a Camry is still several thousand dollars cheaper than a Passat.
11-02-09, 01:11 PM
#60
Lexus Test Driver