MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

The only car to come out since they changed hands is the XF, correct?

R1R

I don't get why people rag on Consumer Reports. They probably test their vehicles to the same degree as C&D, MT, and R&T. It's not like they have grandma's testing their cars at 20 MPH.

For example, EVO X & 370Z:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0pJSZVMOHQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAndC05ZXzY

FisforFast

And the new XK as well, at least the new powerplants. And I don't know if the new XJ (X351) is out yet. Regardless, Jags have always been exceptionally well built - the attention to detail is staggering, and you simply can't deny that. Their motorizations have always been quite reliable, but as with all European cars it's the electronics that fell short.

FisforFast

C&D and MT aren't exactly golden either.

mmarshall

CR, in general, tests for reasonable safety, acceleration, braking, and handling figures, but doesn't rag their cars out as much or abuse the drive train like the enthusiast mags, trying to get absolute lowest 0-60 and quarter-mile times.

encore888

This is now several instances where the ranking for TMC has been Scion-Toyota-Lexus; sometimes it's been Lexus-Toyota-Scion, and perhaps another combo as well. But I'm wondering whether the more mechanically and electronically complex luxury vehicles, in general, are having a harder time topping the charts (with the addition of cameras, sensors, multiple infotainment, more and more speakers, etc). Moreover, the point about range was made...one can see that Honda, Toyota, Lexus, and Mercedes reach the highest points on the % more reliable range, but overall the average ranks them differently to certain degrees.

GS69

Interesting to see how high Mitsubishi is. Correct me if I am wrong, but did they not, a few years ago, hire the guy that helped turn Hyundai around? If so, interesting that Mitsubishi is now 2 spots higher than Hyundai.

The differences w/ J.D. Powers is also of note: Subaru did not do so well on this one .........

FisforFast

Subaru never does very well because they don't make cars that appeal to a broad audience.

ivanz

Just saw this on the news. I have no idea how the GS AWD is any worse than a regular GS (not that the GS has many issues either way). There is no issue with the AWD system (unless you count not able to lower it as much as a RWD as a reliability issue).
What shocked me most was the following:

Source

How is the GS worst in the class? I guess the 5 series or equivilent Mercedes (E? class) aren't rated in order for this to be true. As they have actually issues that make the car not work.

I do admit the GS has issues, but nowhere near the issues that other cars in the class have.

Pure B.S. Lexus should sue them and force them to do a fair comparison of cars in the class.

FisforFast

The equivalent 5-Series from BMW or E-Class from Mercedes-Benz, or even the A6 from Audi, surely can't be as reliable or dependable as the GS from Lexus, whether it be AWD or RWD. This is why these reliability rankings should be taken with a grain of salt.

ivanz

Ok, just found this for the GS AWD




Major brake issues? I've never heard of anybody complaining about the brakes apart from dust.
Fuel system? Audio? Did they just fudge these??

I think the issue is the GS fell through the cracks so to speak. According to the site, there are only 2 GS: GS 300 and GS 450h. Yes, that's right, all of them are GS 300 even for 2008!
Also, the GS RWD is above average and recommended! WTF?

mmarshall

Subarus, mechanically, have been better-than-average for years, though there were some head-gasket and rear-wheel-bearing issues up until about 2003, mostly with the N/A 2.5L. A few wheel-bearing issues remain, but Subarus are still clearly a good bet in the reliability field. In 2004, BTW, Subaru was CR's top-rated overall brand for reliability......with Honda/Lexus tied for second place.

And, as far as appealing to a broad audience, Outbacks/Impreza Wagons are one of the best-selling AWD wagons on the market, far outdoing the Audi All-Road, Volvo XC70, Ford Freestyle, Toyota Venza, and similiar vehicles.

I was so impressed with the Outback that I bought one myself. And the WRX has a huge following in this area......I don't have hard figures, but the WRX seems, right offhand, to be outselling the base Imprezas.

FisforFast

I did not say that Subarus were not reliable, I said that they did not appeal to the broader population. They are not necessarily affordable, they are very expensive to maintain for cars their price, and they aren't exactly pretty. A brake job on a WRX around here is in upwards of $6000 when all is said and done; I reckon a brake job on my R8 is cheaper. They also have sub-par automatic transmissions, which in this day-and-age is unacceptable.

GS69

The reason that I brought up Subaru is bc I thought I remember them ranking like 3rd on a recent JD Powers survey ... even higher than Toyota ... but I must have been dreaming bc despite all my searching, I cannot find that info.

mmarshall

They are not expensive to maintain by AWD standards. AWD products usually require more routine maintenance/inspections than FWD/RWD. With Subies, that added maintenance, as you point out, is there, but minimal. The generally good reliability of Subaru AWD systems, of course, drives that cost down even more.



Whoa. Wait a minute. $6000 for WRX brakes? Somebody is getting taken to the cleaners. Even though WRX brakes are larger then those of regular Imprezas, they should run a couple of hundered dollars....even all four should be well under $1000. The STi, of course, has more expensive Brembos, but even so, should not run anywhere near $6000, given a normal brake job without added work.



If, by "sub-par", you mean too-wide ratios and a lack of flexbility, I'll agree with you that the 4-speed automatics in the non-turbo 2.5L models could use at least another gear (the new 2.5L, BTW, in the 2010 Legacy/Outback has a paddle-shift, 6-range CVT). Other Subaru automatics, with different engines, use 5-speeds. But Subie automatics are not necessarily "sub-par" in the reliability department. I have not seen many of them fail or be replaced........certainly not like, say, in a Dodge/Plymouth minivan, where they often go through several trannies in the vehicle's lifetime.