Tough (and scary) talk from Akio Toyoda
10-03-09, 10:27 AM
#16
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bigness usually creates arrogance and laziness. i think they're realizing it.
but regardless, besides those things, toyota got caught in a squeeze and this can happen to ANY company... by squeeze i mean they were on a roll, doing GREAT, and decided "what's the next big thing we can do?" and they realized "trucks!" so they spent a TON of money on the new Tundra and a couple of plants to build vast quantities of them. well, it didn't sell then the overall market tanked so suddenly they had an ENORMOUS extra overhead and outflow of cash. this for a company that prides itself on never having laid people off in the u.s., so, i believe they've cut work week, more forced time off, etc. but still not actually let people go, but it's got to be KILLING their cash flow.
timing is everything, and anyone can be unlucky, but the tundra product also isn't a home run either, and i think complacency got them there.
the exchange rate, environmental regs and other factors have also forced them to use cheaper materials to build their cars, and it's hard to fault them too much because increasing safety regs and expectations raise the cost of all vehicles regardless, so to keep them affordable they don't have much choice, but somehow they have to do things that MOST consumers won't notice, but it's very hard to do, and they've failed to a large extent in this area. it's OBVIOUS how cheap some of their trim/interior is now.
but everyone's in the same boat there, and toyota has probably the best manufacturing skills on the planet and should be able to beat anyone if they remain focused, NOT arrogant, and recognize what customers want and what they won't tolerate, even subconsciously.
you can't just go up market, because eventually you run out of paying customers unless that really is your only niche like rolls royce or ferrari, and that's a whole different world.
but regardless, besides those things, toyota got caught in a squeeze and this can happen to ANY company... by squeeze i mean they were on a roll, doing GREAT, and decided "what's the next big thing we can do?" and they realized "trucks!" so they spent a TON of money on the new Tundra and a couple of plants to build vast quantities of them. well, it didn't sell then the overall market tanked so suddenly they had an ENORMOUS extra overhead and outflow of cash. this for a company that prides itself on never having laid people off in the u.s., so, i believe they've cut work week, more forced time off, etc. but still not actually let people go, but it's got to be KILLING their cash flow.
timing is everything, and anyone can be unlucky, but the tundra product also isn't a home run either, and i think complacency got them there.
the exchange rate, environmental regs and other factors have also forced them to use cheaper materials to build their cars, and it's hard to fault them too much because increasing safety regs and expectations raise the cost of all vehicles regardless, so to keep them affordable they don't have much choice, but somehow they have to do things that MOST consumers won't notice, but it's very hard to do, and they've failed to a large extent in this area. it's OBVIOUS how cheap some of their trim/interior is now.
but everyone's in the same boat there, and toyota has probably the best manufacturing skills on the planet and should be able to beat anyone if they remain focused, NOT arrogant, and recognize what customers want and what they won't tolerate, even subconsciously.
you can't just go up market, because eventually you run out of paying customers unless that really is your only niche like rolls royce or ferrari, and that's a whole different world.
10-03-09, 02:36 PM
#17
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Interesting read. I wonder if Toyota can get back on track. There are few things that the company is doing that makes me question
1. The Sequoia vs Land Cruiser...either dedicate the Sequoia to worldwide sales or dedicated the Land Cruiser to North American sales. The sales of the current Sequoia SUCK....there really is not need for both...the advantage of the Land Cruiser is that 150+ countries sell the vehicle and Toyota just recently added another shift. The Sequioa on the other hand is sold in North American and Saudi Arabia and does very poorly.
2. Tundra disaster. The second gen tundra is an absolute disaster. Toyota is losing so much money by opening the 400,000k capacity San Antonio plant and modifying the plant again to use the indiana capacity which tundra was once built. And why aren't the Tundra/Sequioa built in the same plant? They were supposed to be built off the same platform and same suppliers. Postitive news is that Toyota will build the Tacoma in the San Antonio plant thus using some of the wasted idle capacity that is cost money.
3. Lexus F cars....sorry Lexus fans. I know this a Lexus forum but when the parent company is losing billions of dollars a year, its hard to justify money being spent on the F cars.
4. Lexus hybrids...Lexus really needs to rethink the GS and LS hybrid strategy. The new HS is a start and the RXh is an outstanding achievement.
5. Kill some these models already.
i: Camry Solara WHY WHY WHY? is this still built. toyota.com lists it as an 08 model
ii FJ Cruiser is pointless right now.
iii SC430....for god's sake. Just kill it and move on. I believe it that last new Toyota to still use a timing belt
iv: GSvsLS we really don't need both. One of the other.
v: Toyota does not need SCION...Scion is a failure.
1. The Sequoia vs Land Cruiser...either dedicate the Sequoia to worldwide sales or dedicated the Land Cruiser to North American sales. The sales of the current Sequoia SUCK....there really is not need for both...the advantage of the Land Cruiser is that 150+ countries sell the vehicle and Toyota just recently added another shift. The Sequioa on the other hand is sold in North American and Saudi Arabia and does very poorly.
2. Tundra disaster. The second gen tundra is an absolute disaster. Toyota is losing so much money by opening the 400,000k capacity San Antonio plant and modifying the plant again to use the indiana capacity which tundra was once built. And why aren't the Tundra/Sequioa built in the same plant? They were supposed to be built off the same platform and same suppliers. Postitive news is that Toyota will build the Tacoma in the San Antonio plant thus using some of the wasted idle capacity that is cost money.
3. Lexus F cars....sorry Lexus fans. I know this a Lexus forum but when the parent company is losing billions of dollars a year, its hard to justify money being spent on the F cars.
4. Lexus hybrids...Lexus really needs to rethink the GS and LS hybrid strategy. The new HS is a start and the RXh is an outstanding achievement.
5. Kill some these models already.
i: Camry Solara WHY WHY WHY? is this still built. toyota.com lists it as an 08 model
ii FJ Cruiser is pointless right now.
iii SC430....for god's sake. Just kill it and move on. I believe it that last new Toyota to still use a timing belt
iv: GSvsLS we really don't need both. One of the other.
v: Toyota does not need SCION...Scion is a failure.
I agree The LC could be cut from the US. I fail to see why the sell both the LX and the LC... no point whatsoever. The Sequoia really wouldn't o well in many other places around the world. It's purely american, built for the type of use and environment.
It ought to be built in San Antonio along with the Tundra and Tacoma. I do think the Tundra could be better, but I also don't think it's a failure.
Now...
F cars exist so Lexus does not loose customers to BMW and Benz. It's not just an image thing, and I think they have a bright future and is indeed a good investment from Toyota/Lexus.
Lexus hybrids.. nothing wrong with the GS and LS. They just need to be repositioned, and better executed. The HS could be worlds better, not enough f/e and it looks like a corolla outside. An awd ES hybrid would be awesome IMHO. I agree the RX is cool, but it needs to go on a diet, like most of this generation of Lexus cars... I dread to see the future.
- The solara was killed.... thank God
- The FJ does have it's niche, but it's so close in size to the new 4Runner that it might make sense to not continue it
- The SC needs updating, not the firing squad. Lexus needs more coupes, not less.
- Why shouldn't both the GS and LS exist? Have you completely lost it?
- Scion needs more unique vehicles, and they really need to put as much effort into it as when it was launched. It's kinda just floating lost right now, but good things can be done with it
10-03-09, 03:30 PM
#19
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I aint buying this cry. For one, Toyota just came out of several incredible years of historic profits and record sales. Are their bank accounts empty in one year? How can all those record-breaking years mean nothing such a short time later? Did Toyota suddenly not know how to manage money after 40 years? Something isn't adding up at all. Also, didn't they see some of this coming and adjust their output? If anything, Toyota is coming back down to more normal volumes, rather than record-breaking ones. I don't think normal means "near death," especially when today's sales are similar to how they were before their big record-breaking days. They managed just fine back then, they can adjust and manage just fine now.
Toyota always thinks long-term; they are worried about problems that might arise in the long-term future more than the problems they have now. Actions have already been taken to address their current problems, and this speech shows actions are being taken to prevent further problems in the long-term.
10-03-09, 08:43 PM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
Yes Toyota has had historic profits and huge sales. What Akio Toyoda is doing is galvanizing the company ranks into action with a sense of urgency. Even though Toyota is the world's biggest automaker right now, he wants to instill a sense of urgency in the company as it was some small niche maker trying to prove itself in the market.
Toyota always thinks long-term; they are worried about problems that might arise in the long-term future more than the problems they have now. Actions have already been taken to address their current problems, and this speech shows actions are being taken to prevent further problems in the long-term.
Toyota always thinks long-term; they are worried about problems that might arise in the long-term future more than the problems they have now. Actions have already been taken to address their current problems, and this speech shows actions are being taken to prevent further problems in the long-term.
Thanks for the input.
10-03-09, 09:32 PM
#21
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Pass.
10-03-09, 11:46 PM
#22
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I agree The LC could be cut from the US. I fail to see why the sell both the LX and the LC... no point whatsoever. The Sequoia really wouldn't o well in many other places around the world. It's purely american, built for the type of use and environment.
It ought to be built in San Antonio along with the Tundra and Tacoma. I do think the Tundra could be better, but I also don't think it's a failure
It ought to be built in San Antonio along with the Tundra and Tacoma. I do think the Tundra could be better, but I also don't think it's a failure
Now...
F cars exist so Lexus does not loose customers to BMW and Benz. It's not just an image thing, and I think they have a bright future and is indeed a good investment from Toyota/Lexus.[/LIST
F cars exist so Lexus does not loose customers to BMW and Benz. It's not just an image thing, and I think they have a bright future and is indeed a good investment from Toyota/Lexus.[/LIST
Lexus hybrids.. nothing wrong with the GS and LS. They just need to be repositioned, and better executed. The HS could be worlds better, not enough f/e and it looks like a corolla outside. An awd ES hybrid would be awesome IMHO. I agree the RX is cool, but it needs to go on a diet, like most of this generation of Lexus cars... I dread to see the future.
I do think the Tundra could be better, but I also don't think it's a failure.
in case you really want a good LOL! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjTbiYo3x0 check out the bed bounce
All of the above...bleeds money from Toyota. They need to fix it!
10-04-09, 01:13 AM
#23
I posted a couple of years ago when they were surging toward number 1 that quantity at the expense of quality is what got GM into trouble, seems that Toyoda understands this and is dialing things back, and wow Japan's cash for clunkers runs through next March? Ours was scheduled to run through November but was broke after 2 weeks.
10-04-09, 01:04 PM
#24
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that's F car, not cars. 
oh just apart from those two things...
with respect to owners, the GS450h and LS600hL, while technological marvels, are solutions looking for problems. maybe the GS450h was done as a 'halo' for the GS, but it didn't work.
agreed on both.
too big or too much weight? given the RX size, cost and features, it would be hard to be much lighter without expensive materials.
Lexus hybrids.. nothing wrong with the GS and LS. They just need to be repositioned, and better executed.
with respect to owners, the GS450h and LS600hL, while technological marvels, are solutions looking for problems. maybe the GS450h was done as a 'halo' for the GS, but it didn't work.
The HS could be worlds better, not enough f/e and it looks like a corolla outside. An awd ES hybrid would be awesome IMHO.
I agree the RX is cool, but it needs to go on a diet, like most of this generation of Lexus cars... I dread to see the future.
- The FJ does have it's niche, but it's so close in size to the new 4Runner that it might make sense to not continue
- The SC needs updating, not the firing squad. Lexus needs more coupes, not less.
10-04-09, 01:06 PM
#25
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and scion is toyota's "saturn" - if they don't do something, it'll end up dead too.
10-04-09, 03:45 PM
#27
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wrt the diet, weight. Lexus cars have gotten to heavy, while historically they have usually been the lightest in their class. I'm form the Collin Chapman school of thought, "Add lightness". Helps in every area; performance (handling, braking and acceleration) and more importantly FUEL ECONOMY.
I think Toyoa should get rid of the Sequoia or make it their world platform SUV...There is nothing the Land Cruiser really can do that the Sequoia can do except seat the third row in comfort. America lived with many generations of Land Cruisers before and at one time Toyota sold 30k units of the LX/LC combined. Right now the Sequoia barely sells that. Also, if the Land Cruiser is good enough for 150 countries..why not America?
It is a good investment when you have your capacity if filled. How many buyers do you really think Lexus keeps by offering a F series...maybe 500?
This is what I said. I said Lexus needs to rethink the Lexus hybrid strategy. Repositioned and better executed = rethink
The Tundra is a disaster. From the start I will state the problems. First the Texas plant, then the camshaft issue right out of the gate, then the interior quality problems....then not recommended by CR.....Toyota invented the defintion "bed bounce" lol...then idling plants...eliminating Indiana to Texas then idle again..2nd gen has three engine yet they sell less models then 1st gen...
in case you really want a good LOL! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjTbiYo3x0 check out the bed bounce
All of the above...bleeds money from Toyota. They need to fix it!
It is a good investment when you have your capacity if filled. How many buyers do you really think Lexus keeps by offering a F series...maybe 500?
This is what I said. I said Lexus needs to rethink the Lexus hybrid strategy. Repositioned and better executed = rethink
The Tundra is a disaster. From the start I will state the problems. First the Texas plant, then the camshaft issue right out of the gate, then the interior quality problems....then not recommended by CR.....Toyota invented the defintion "bed bounce" lol...then idling plants...eliminating Indiana to Texas then idle again..2nd gen has three engine yet they sell less models then 1st gen...
in case you really want a good LOL! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjTbiYo3x0 check out the bed bounce
All of the above...bleeds money from Toyota. They need to fix it!
Firstly, you obviously have no clue as to the limit of the sequoia and how the land cruiser is used around the world.
Secondly, the LX and LC are virtually the same vehicle. At their price point, it is more justifiable to sell the Lexus LX than the LC (you know, nameplate and all). Furthermore, the Sequoia was created with a specific segment in mind which it serves. It is also built in America on the Tundra platform... why import the LC to fill it's position? C'mon man... and you are rambling on about "bleeding money"
Last I checked, the IS F was outselling the M3 sedan.. not sure how accurate that data is, but it would seem that the IS F is serving it's purpose just fine.
Reposition = determine whether they want the GS/LS hybrids at the top of their segment (GS350->GS460->GSh) or in the middle; As Luxo cruisers or lead sleds. Neither is going to be a prius, nor should they be IMHO.
Better executed = Li-io battery packs so they can get their trunk space back, and reduce their curb weight.
The Tundra has/had issues. It happens. It's been sorted, get over it. Probably complacency on Toyota's part, but that is exactly what Toyoda's speech was about no (well...part of anyway)? I have seen the bed bounce videos a million times. If you can find 1% of owners/users who have experienced it I'd applaud you. Did you do physics in school? And wrt sales... you do realize that the Tundra debuted right on the brink of a gas and then economical crisis?
10-04-09, 03:49 PM
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10-04-09, 03:53 PM
#29
TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Corp. President Akio Toyoda said his money-losing automaker is “grasping for salvation” as it struggles to return to profit.
I am sure the links & insider analysis will follow
10-04-09, 04:01 PM
#30
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The CEO is acknoledging what we already know. Just as we already knew BMW has lost millions even longer as their leases killed them (and continue to do so).
Don't be surprised if Toyota buys BMW.
They have the cash to do so.