#1 Infiniti G37 Journey vs. #2 Acura TL SH-AWD
11-17-08, 01:53 PM
#16
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Also to add, if the TL somehow loses a C&D comparo to the G, that will be a sure sign the new TL is a flop. The one other thing would be falling sales figures, and soon enough we will see how that turns out.
11-17-08, 02:14 PM
#17
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acura is teh suck
that much power, and it can only pull off a sub-7s and 15sec quarter.
maybe they should make removable front and rear seats, and shave off 300 lbs.
that much power, and it can only pull off a sub-7s and 15sec quarter.
maybe they should make removable front and rear seats, and shave off 300 lbs.
11-17-08, 02:50 PM
#19
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Acura should be following Nissan's lead.
Witness the new 370Z and Maxima. They are both smaller and lighter than their predecessors. I think I remember reading that Ghosn wanted to make size and weight a priority.
The new TL is just huge and ugly and overweight.
Witness the new 370Z and Maxima. They are both smaller and lighter than their predecessors. I think I remember reading that Ghosn wanted to make size and weight a priority.
The new TL is just huge and ugly and overweight.
11-17-08, 03:10 PM
#20
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I think both Infiniti and Acura got hit by the ugly stick with the latest generations, but Acura got hit by the bigger ugly stick.
Such a shame, both the G35 and the 3rd Gen TL were (and still are) stunning, head turning vehicles when they first debuted. Seems like Audi is taking the lead in stunning designs. Unfortunately, they are neither performance leading nor great values.
Such a shame, both the G35 and the 3rd Gen TL were (and still are) stunning, head turning vehicles when they first debuted. Seems like Audi is taking the lead in stunning designs. Unfortunately, they are neither performance leading nor great values.
11-17-08, 04:35 PM
#22
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What's worse is that rumours say the new 6-speed Honda is developing won't be ready for at least 2 years. By then, all of Infiniti's lineup will likely have the 7-speed, and a bunch of Lexus models will have the 8-speed. That's not even mentioning what Benz, BMW, and Audi will have.
Acura is behind by 2 gears...
11-17-08, 05:18 PM
#24
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I agree with you in theory, DSG is superb as well. However a supposed luxury brand doesn't have more gears than GM, Ford, Hyundai, Kia, Pontiac, VW, Toyota, etc etc etc, well thats not luxury. That is cheap and foolishness.
No excuse for it.
Its clear in reviews what has helped Infiniti is not really the bump in power, but the great new transmission they have.
11-17-08, 07:54 PM
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As SICK said, Porsche now has a 7-speed DSG. How about we also mention the 8-speed in the IS-F, which has not just gears and automatic mode, it has arguably the fastest and most sophisticated "manual mode" of any automatic on the market. Honda's 5 speed auto simply does not compare in any way, whether in "manual mode" functionality or in number of cogs.
Honda is simply behind in transmission technology, period.
11-17-08, 07:55 PM
#26
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I actually kind of agree with that. It's pretty dumb, but Honda insists on developing their own proprietary transmissions in house (even though I'd argue ZF Friedrichshafen manufactures far superior units). I'm not totally against in-house designs (a la VW/Audi DSG), but Honda isn't exactly known for manufacturing their own reliable transmissions. The Accord went with a 4AT (w/ no manual shift) from 98-02, while the 98-05 Vw Passat had a ZF unit out of a Porsche Boxter. It's things like that that have me question why Honda is regarded so highly as far as overall packaging and engineering. That same generation of Accord didn't have curtain airbags either, and they weren't standard on all Accord's until 2004. In comparison, the full suite of airbag (and EDL/TCS) was stanard on all base model Passats starting from 2000. Even the stereos of the time were inferior, the Accord having a terrible terrible audio system, the Acura TL's bose unit not even standing up to the just marvelously balanced Monsoon unit in vw products. So bringing it back to the Acura, I'd hypothesize that Honda usually takes cues from the Europeans, integrating them into a highly reliable car that costs less, but only a few years later. At least when you directly compare VW to Honda (I'm just rambling on about this becuase I own both), you can see how Honda blatantly integrated some German design elements, but only in their next generation cars years later. In sum, they are slow to come out with new features/technology for the market place (sorry, doppler radar on the nav screen is all but a gimmick), usually being very conservative and worrying overley about enroaching into Acura's market. If there's one thing I admire about VW, they are not afraid to equip a Jetta with equipment levels of an entry level Audi. For example, the Accord has no memory seating, no tilt-down rearview mirror, not even projector beam halogens. Honda people write this off as "they have to have a reason for you to go to Acura". This is ridiculous in my mind. They take technology from others and do it their own way (read, value-oriented). SH-AWD is a cheapened up version of Audi's latest torque-vectoring Quattro, the Xenon headlamps standard in Acura models do not have AFS, even as an option. Their latest iVTEC system is implemented in an inferior fashion to Audi Valve Lift, etc. They rarely take big risks in terms of mechanicals/features. They leave that to the other manufactures and then follow when it's tested in the marketplace. Ironically, they take much larger risks in introducing polarizing new styling on their products.
Last edited by FKL; 11-17-08 at 08:03 PM.
11-17-08, 08:21 PM
#28
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Uhh and tell me how exactly this has anything to do with Honda/Acura? Honda has NO DSG tranny, there are no rumours about them making one, *AND* Honda has only 5 speeds in it's automatic.
As SICK said, Porsche now has a 7-speed DSG. How about we also mention the 8-speed in the IS-F, which has not just gears and automatic mode, it has arguably the fastest and most sophisticated "manual mode" of any automatic on the market. Honda's 5 speed auto simply does not compare in any way, whether in "manual mode" functionality or in number of cogs.
Honda is simply behind in transmission technology, period.
As SICK said, Porsche now has a 7-speed DSG. How about we also mention the 8-speed in the IS-F, which has not just gears and automatic mode, it has arguably the fastest and most sophisticated "manual mode" of any automatic on the market. Honda's 5 speed auto simply does not compare in any way, whether in "manual mode" functionality or in number of cogs.
Honda is simply behind in transmission technology, period.
Oh I actually agree with your last point. All I was trying to say is that the physical count of gears is not the all end means to quantifying how good a transmission truely is. That's why I brought up a 6-speed dual clutch being more sophisticated/desirable/better performing than some 7 speed automatics with a torque-converter.
11-17-08, 08:28 PM
#29
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I actually kind of agree with that. It's pretty dumb, but Honda insists on developing their own proprietary transmissions in house (even though I'd argue ZF Friedrichshafen manufactures far superior units). I'm not totally against in-house designs (a la VW/Audi DSG), but Honda isn't exactly known for manufacturing their own reliable transmissions. The Accord went with a 4AT (w/ no manual shift) from 98-02, while the 98-05 Vw Passat had a ZF unit out of a Porsche Boxter. It's things like that that have me question why Honda is regarded so highly as far as overall packaging and engineering. That same generation of Accord didn't have curtain airbags either, and they weren't standard on all Accord's until 2004. In comparison, the full suite of airbag (and EDL/TCS) was stanard on all base model Passats starting from 2000. So bring it back to the Acura, I'd hypothesize that Honda usually takes cues from the Europeans, integrating them into a highly reliable car that costs less, but only a few years later. At least when you directly compare VW to Honda (I'm just rambling on about this becuase I own both), you can see how Honda blatantly integrated some German design elements, but only in their next generation cars years later. In sum, they are slow to come out with new features/technology for the market place (sorry, doppler radar on the nav screen is all but a gimmick), usually being very conservative. SH-AWD is a cheapened up version of Audi's latest torque-vectoring Quattro, the Xenon headlamps standard in Acura models do not have AFS, even as an option. They rarely take big risks in terms of mechanicals/features. They leave that to the other manufactures and then follow when it's tested in the marketplace. But I have to admit, a new transmission is long overdue.
Given Honda's profits over the years, and given the size of the company there is no excuse why Honda hasn't created a new transmission by now. The company has simply lost focus.
11-17-08, 09:08 PM
#30
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I actually kind of agree with that. It's pretty dumb, but Honda insists on developing their own proprietary transmissions in house (even though I'd argue ZF Friedrichshafen manufactures far superior units). I'm not totally against in-house designs (a la VW/Audi DSG), but Honda isn't exactly known for manufacturing their own reliable transmissions. The Accord went with a 4AT (w/ no manual shift) from 98-02, while the 98-05 Vw Passat had a ZF unit out of a Porsche Boxter. It's things like that that have me question why Honda is regarded so highly as far as overall packaging and engineering. That same generation of Accord didn't have curtain airbags either, and they weren't standard on all Accord's until 2004. In comparison, the full suite of airbag (and EDL/TCS) was stanard on all base model Passats starting from 2000. Even the stereos of the time were inferior, the Accord having a terrible terrible audio system, the Acura TL's bose unit not even standing up to the just marvelously balanced Monsoon unit in vw products. So bringing it back to the Acura, I'd hypothesize that Honda usually takes cues from the Europeans, integrating them into a highly reliable car that costs less, but only a few years later. At least when you directly compare VW to Honda (I'm just rambling on about this becuase I own both), you can see how Honda blatantly integrated some German design elements, but only in their next generation cars years later. In sum, they are slow to come out with new features/technology for the market place (sorry, doppler radar on the nav screen is all but a gimmick), usually being very conservative and worrying overley about enroaching into Acura's market. If there's one thing I admire about VW, they are not afraid to equip a Jetta with equipment levels of an entry level Audi. For example, the Accord has no memory seating, no tilt-down rearview mirror, not even projector beam halogens. Honda people write this off as "they have to have a reason for you to go to Acura". This is ridiculous in my mind. They take technology from others and do it their own way (read, value-oriented). SH-AWD is a cheapened up version of Audi's latest torque-vectoring Quattro, the Xenon headlamps standard in Acura models do not have AFS, even as an option. Their latest iVTEC system is implemented in an inferior fashion to Audi Valve Lift, etc. They rarely take big risks in terms of mechanicals/features. They leave that to the other manufactures and then follow when it's tested in the marketplace. Ironically, they take much larger risks in introducing polarizing new styling on their products.
