That's what I'm saying. Torque is in many cases more important than hp.

To tell you the truth, I'm not really impressed with the straightline performance of the Hyundai V8 nor the Lexus V8. The E550 and the 550i absolutely obliterates them. And the new Infiniti 5.0 V8 managed to move a 4640 pound SUV (FX50) to 60 in an eye-popping 5.2s! (Motortrend test)

It looks like Hyundai is planning to bring over a direct-injection 5.0L V8 to "catch up".

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...ase/index.html

I have no doubt that Lexus will put the 5.0L V8 in the GS and the LS. Otherwise, they'll seriously fall behind the competition. Also, "GS500" and LS500" just sound so much better rolling off the tongue....

 

I've mentioned this somewhere in the past as well, but I personally have a very strong feeling that the GS460 ended up where it is power-wise because of the GS450h. In promoting hybrids as the new powertrain solution, they have designed and marketed the hybrids as the range-topper in every class. They could not go from GS350 --> GS430 --> GS450h to GS350 --> GS450h --> GS460. I expect for next generation GS to have the hybrids at a higher output. Lexus was sure to give the LS460 power comparable to the rest of the class while still giving its hybrid flagship a substantial increase in power.

That aside, I'm curious to see more tests of the GS460 to get a better idea of its acceleration.

 

Sorry that is not what ultimately matters. We have seen car brands have good cars and just sell horribly b/c the image of the brand conjures of images of daisy fields. The dealership network matters to people, expecially when you drop more coin on a car than the average consumer.

I don't buy that "Car guys" should only care about the car. Car guys can care about the entire luxury arena as MP stated. ESPECIALLY since "Car Guys" don't buy cars in droves. You have to appeal to the masses, or your car will fail.

For most buyers, it is the entire package you are getting with the car. THat is why so many luxury brands are trying different ways to keep and attract customers. Having coffee and internet access in your dealership no longer is an advantage. That is why Lexus offers exclusive parking at areas for customers. Why BMW goes through the trouble of offering driving schools. It is why Benzes can be ordered any way you choice.

 

Well there are people that won't shop or be in a Toyota dealer because its a Toyota. IMO I could care less about how nice they are to me, how nice the leather chairs are in the waiting room or how nice the big screen is...just do my oil change right and fast and get me out there.

I pity those people who pay $200 or whatever it costs when it is the same engine and oil as Camry or Avalon. But if you think marble floor, big giant glass windows, polished counters etc means that you should pay extra for brakes etc when in fact they are Toyota parts then good for you.

 

Exactly. Hyundai has half the equation right, but the other half is still missing, and understandably so. Given the time they need, the Genesis will grow into something great for Hyundai but for now it's simply a good car with super high aspirations.

 

I think for Lexus they need to evolve their brand into a full line vehicle manufacturer...but without a pick up/minivan...

Lexus needs something to go head to head with the 1 series, they need something to take on the X5/X6. A better IS is also needed with drop top etc (that should be on the way) The RX is fine but they need something more sporty in the segment a JX would be perfect. They also need a dedicated hybrid only model similar to the Prius. That is the future for Lexus IMO. The GS will have to adjusted in price.

 

That's debatable. Going lower than the IS risks serious brand dilution and while it would be somewhat different than Hyundai's situation, I can all but see the 760Li owner getting his car serviced next to the punk kid waiting for an oil change on his 128i.

Lexus is already the best selling luxury brand, but imagine if they sold another 100,000 cars on the road. Lexuses would really be just as common as Camrys, thus losing their cache and exclusive appeal.

Everything in your post I agree with except the 1 series competitor. IS coupe and convert are coming, new RX and 3 row crossover, and I think the next GS will simply be more competitive and more full line product. I would venture to predict that they'll apply their strategy from the IS line to the GS- two models, luxury and sport packages (which it so desperately needs).

I'll predict it's going to be something like...

GS 350 (~320hp/290lb-ft of torque)
GS 350 Sport (Stiffer suspension, aluminum trim, 19" wheels, maybe lip spoiler and subtle ground effects)
GS 350 Premium Pkg (luxury)
GS 350 AWD with optional Sport or Prem Pkg

GS 460 (~395hp/380lb-ft torque)
GS 460 Sport
GS 460 AWD

GS-F (550HP V10 sourced from LF-A)

I really think that Lexus has seen and understood the success of the 2nd gen IS, and the relatively mediocre performance of the third generation GS. The GS just isn't an outstanding car in any one regard, but is rather pretty good in a few different ones. Adding more trim levels and option packages would cure a lot of the cars problems IMO.

 

do they? Sure... but they will do it only to make money on it. BMW has to do it to survive. BMW now has 50% less profits margins than Toyota, per car, let alone Lexus.

As to GS needing to adjust in price - nah. It wont and it cant. It can offer better value for the money in the future though with better trunk, better back space.

We can talk all we want, but first month sales for Genesis have been pretty bad... we will see in 5 days what happens. Afterall, it is car that is cheaper than ES.

 

I think the GS is a very good car but it is about $8000 over priced in each model. At the price it has right the GS could be more..at the price of a genesis v8 and the Lexus is the benchmark.

 

This would all be great but bring each model down in price by about $8000.

 

Could you please elaborate on how you find the GS overpriced?

 

For the features and performance..one can shop elsewhere and let the price be the deciding factor. I am dissappointed the GS does not offer a gig drive for music or a controller **** like the rest.

Cars like the M45 have a tad more interior features for a little less. Cars like the Genesis offer a little better performance, more hp better braking for less.

Sure the GS offers that AVS, electric steering, pre crash and 8 speed...but they don't benefit the car all that much.

 

I dont buy into that sales experience and customer service being part of luxury otherwise Mercedes and BMWs would be be disqualified from the luxury arena. The car itself defines being luxury or not. Take the previous gen LS430 and slap on the Toyota Celsior badge. Is it any less of a luxury car?

 

A fw things here
1. The GS wasn't a knockout grandslam for Lexus nor do they have attractive lease deals nor are ther wagon or other varients (GS 450h is a limited production model) and IT STILL is the 3rd best selling in class.

2. The GS is 3rd best selling in class WITH a higher MSRP than ever before.

3. If you price the GS 8k less, the GS 350 starts at 36k and the GS 460 at 44k. That is nowhere close to what the Germans are offering.

4. You may find the GS overpriced but compared to the Germans, it is A BARGAIN. The GS 460 is 8k less than a 550i. Remember, Lexus tackles the GERMANS first, everyone else 2nd.

5. The Infiniti M35/45 are the cheapest in this class with the cheapest lease deals. THey also share tons of parts so they should be cheaper to produce (still a great car).

6. Lexus has always been about a comparable product for less money than the Germans. Amazingly this is not the case all the time today

 

i think mt just has a thing agianst lexus and if they put the 460 in there, they might as well pt the 550 mb and bmw too