lexguynj

What I dislike are those people that hate everything about an American car, trash it all the time and enjoy how the big 3 are sufferring & how they deserve it. It doesn't do the economy and even more so the workers any good when we hear about layoffs everyday and cutbacks at the big 3. This is not good for anyone.

I mean sure we all have our own opinions (buy the best for the money out there) but remember we all live in America (one of the greatest places in the world). We are fortunate enough to own a luxury car and enjoy it. You should still be proud of an American built item and hope that everyone is doing well financially or there will be even more backlash against that luxury import we are all driving. When times are good, people are happy and don't over analyze things as much. When times are bad, people start to target those to blame (such a imported vehicles, etc...)

And your arguments about my Toyota is more American built than a Ford. although probably true in most respects, this argument falls on deaf ears on the general public. What it comes down to is you are buying Japanese, Korean or German and NOT an American vehicle. There is no way of convincing the general public you are doing America a favor buy buying a Toyota. Just enjoy what you drive and stop trying to convince people that it's more American made than they think.

IS350jet

True enthusiasts rarely fall on just one side of the fence. They're interested in all cars and manufacturers. They take interest in what all manufacturers have to offer. As a kid, I grew up with Camaros and Mustangs and Challengers etc.. But I quickly changed to Japanese cars. I don't really remember why. I still take interest in what other manufacturers have to offer. These days, it's difficult to see the amazing turn-around of GM products because it makes me consider a purchase. One thing stops me, though. One of the most important aspect in my buying decision is resale value.
Tops on my list is quality, reliability, and styling. I think GM is getting there.

mmarshall

I agree wth the "enjoy what you drive" part, but disagree with the rest. I feel that part of our jobs, as auto enthusiasts and car-saavy people, is to help educate the general public on the realities of today's auto market.........something that the general auto press itself doesn't always do a good job of. My feeling is that enough of the car-buying public walks around with its head in the sand......many with old prejudices dating back to World War II. We certainly shouldn't be helping to encourage that nonsense.

In fact, IMO, a number of us here in CAR CHAT (1SICKGOAT, Gojiraa99, bitkahuna, RON430, doug999, flipside909, PhillipMSPT, GFerg, TRDFantasy, SLegacy99, among others) do a better job of that than a lot of the junk I read in the general press.....some of the worst auto writing and reviews I've seen are done in newspaper weeklies.

MrMark

iTrader: (3)

Translation......I can't afford it....



Translation......I don't know how to use it....

19psi

^^^ i agree 100% with mmarshall's last post.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

Another thing i am curios about, where do cars like Mazdas and Saabs fall, i mean they were one imported cars, but know and have been owned by American companies and are made i think almost completely by American parts, what do people think about those?

kit cat

iTrader: (6)

actually, OEM navigation can hurt the value of the car sometimes since its so integrated with the car yet since technology advances at such a high rate, technology becomes obsolete.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I've notice this as well on certain cars. Depending on the layout of the dash and how integrated the nav is I sometimes look for the non nav equipped cars so I can drop in an updated modern aftermarket double DIN nav unit. Even just a 3-5 year old OEM navigation unit can be pretty out dated.

That said, I wouldn't say it degrades or even depreciates the vehicle. I might say it does potentially limit your buying market though since most buyers still don't buy cars with navigation for various reasons.

I8ABMR

Thats not true. It will always add to the value of the car. Look at kelley blue book numbers. Big ticket upgrades like technology packages, and navagation is what separates the lower end cars from the higher end models. It will only add value. The digffernce in value between the stock and loaded car may decrease, but the stripped car will never sell for more than the car with the NAV.

I8ABMR

my brother rented a 2008 ford edge. What a piece of crap. They still use the cheapest interior plastics I have ever seen. Total garbage. Why cant they just copy the japanese and make a highlander, murano, pilot, interior. God these american car designers are blind. The only american car interior that I ever saw as equal to the japanese was the cadillac CTS (08). When I was in Hawaii 2 months ago I spent a week with a Jeep wrangler, and have also rented the ford mustang. Both are total crap as well. the technology is ancient, and the fit and finish and interior quality was just sad. I dont see how they even sell these cars

llamaboiz

my IS350 IS a true import... not like some camry made in cali or w/e its made... hey i got family in japan too so i'll support the japanese economy, NIPPON ICHI!

As for the Big 3... they dug they their own graves by making crappy cars, so what i should feel sorry for them??? HA~!

btw: we in hawaii survive off the japanese and other asian tourists therefore if the dollar tanks it might draw more of them here to spend their money

I8ABMR

[QUOTE=lexguynj;3718471]What I dislike are those people that hate everything about an American car, trash it all the time and enjoy how the big 3 are sufferring & how they deserve it. It doesn't do the economy and even more so the workers any good when we hear about layoffs everyday and cutbacks at the big 3. This is not good for anyone.

In the past the american auto makers have stolen billions from its customers by selling them the poorest made cars available in the american market. Their corporate strategy was to sell the cars on volume by reducing the total price, and cutting cost on every possible facet of the car. This left the owners totally stranded with a trashy car and pissed off. The american car companies decided that they will make a killing on the vehicles and make a killing on parts for repair. They never pushed for brand loyalty like the japanese, because they assumed they already had it, they pushed and pushed and pushed for profits . In the end they make billions, their dealerships are doing very well, but the customers eat crap. Remeber that car companies make more money on parts and service than they do in sales . Margin on most car is 2-4 %. Service is where its at. Thats what GM was trying to do in the 80's and 90's. Screw the customers , lets make billions on selling poorly made cars that we can make profit on by doing repeated repairs on.( I am sure we have all heard the horror stories or have lived them). So after all that I am supposed to be sad because they are getting screwed . They did it to themselves, and do you think they feel bad about all of the millions of problematic cars they have sold over the past 20 years?????


Once the objective ratings finally started coming out in the 90's ( JD power) thats when the american car companies were exsposed for what they really are on a massive level. before that it was just word of mouth. Now we all know for a fact that american cars are the lowest of the low for reliability. that is not subjective or even something that one can argue. Its been proven every year for the past 20 years when the consumer reports and JD power numbers come out every year. So I would tell anyone who doesnt understand why someone would loathe the american car companies, look at the consumer reports and JD power and assoc numbers for the past 15-20 years. You will feel a little differently about these thieves... I mean companies. GM was until recently the largest car company in the world. You dont think they didnt have the know how, resource, and brains to produce better cars??? They did 100% and still chose to take your money and put it in the pockets of the share holders and kep pumping out the poorest made ( fact), and ugliest ( subjective ) cars this country has seen.

mmarshall

I'll agree that the Edge and Mustang both have cheap interiors, but why pick on the Jeep Wrangler? It is a purpose-designed cheap off-roader, for mud, snow, beach sand, fording creek beds, climbing rocks and mountain trails, etc... It has EXACTLY the kind of interior one would want.....and expect.....for such conditions. And if you think the present-generation Wrangler is stark, compare it to its predecessors.

mmarshall

This was more a case in the past than now. Ford and Buick, today, actually make some reliable products, though interior plastics, though flashy and ornate, are still second-rate in some cases. The Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan/Lincoln MKZ triplets, for example, have Honda-like reliability in the FWD vesions and even average or better in the AWD versions. Buicks have been better-than-average in reliability for a number of years. And, in general, you will now, today, find the worst overall reliability, which was once centered on the Korean brands, among German and British automakers....mostly because of poor electronics. Mercedes and Land Rover, especially, have developed poor reputations...worse than many American brands. That's especially shameful, considering that 20 years ago, Mercedes was clearly the world's best.

19psi

agree 100%. why would anyone want a wrangler to have a lexus quality interior? it's just going to get covered in mud, dust, water, etc. there's no need for anything super nice in a wrangler. functionality is key in a vehicle such as that. a hose it out interior is fantastic for any kind of off road play vehicle.