mmarshall

A Review of the 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid


http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/


















In a Nutshell: The closest Toyota Prius competitor.....and just as well-built.




Yes, with gas prices at some of their highest levels ever (prices have dropped a few cents this week but are still way up there), it's time to drop by the Honda store and check out Honda's highest-mileage U.S.-market car, the Civic Hybrid. Hybrids are not necessarily the best way to go for the absolute cheapest personal automotive transportation or running costs (as you will see in my closing statements below), but the lure of high gas mileage, and, in the case of the Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius, exceptional reliability despite their complexity, lures a lot of people into the showroom. This, of course, has been aided and abetted by the glamor and publicity that the press and celebrities have shown these cars.....they have an image factor of political correctness that, if not particularly popular with traditional car enthusiasts, has enthralled and raptured a significant part of the car-buying public.

Honda first introduced the Civic Hybrid as a big brother and more conventional, more useful 4-door sedan alternative to the tiny, two-seat, three-cylinder, hybrid Honda Insight.....a car that got stunningly high gas mileage, but was useful for little else than two small-to-medium adults and minimal baggage (its payload was only 350 pounds), and was very noisy and uncomfortable. Toyota, after Honda's Insight, had already introduced the first-generation 4-door Prius sedan in America (it had already been on sale in Japan for a couple of years). The first-generation Civic Hybrid, of course, was the first real U.S.-market competition for the Prius. Both cars went on to become a success in the marketplace and have now been replaced with later-generation models. I've already reviewed the current-generation Prius, so now it's time for the Civic Hybrid.








Model Reviewed: 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid


Base Price: $22,600


Major Options: None




Destination/Freight: $635


List Price as reviewed: $23,235 (dealer markups, though, are common)





Exterior Color: Opal Silver Blue Metallic

Interior: Ivory Cloth (Honda calls it Ivory but it is actually tan)


Drivetrain: FWD, Transverse-mounted, 1.3L in-line, i-VTEC-4 gas engine, 110 HP @ 6000 RPM, 123 ft-lbs. torque @ 1000-2500 RPM, Permanent-magnet electric motor, 20 HP, 76 ft-lbs torque, CVT (continuously-Variable-Transmission).

EPA mileage rating: 40 City, 45 Highway (this does not quite match the Toyota Prius, but close)






PLUSSES:



Relatively bargain-priced compared to other non-hybrid Civics (if no dealer markups).

Honda reliability.

Swiss-Watch build quality.

Excellent paint job.

Soft, comfortable seat cushions.

Plush, quality seat fabric.

Superlative exterior hardware.

Steering wheel looks/feels better than on other Hondas.

Good legroom and head room front and rear.

Quality stereo.

Tilt/telescope steering wheel.

Solid, precise-closing doors.

Smooth, unobtrusive CVT.

Quiet engine.

High-quality, well-done interior hardware.

Good wind noise isolation.

Electric A/C compressor doesn't significantly affect engine power or mileage.

Well-designed, clearly-labeled, simple controls (non-NAV version).

8-year battery-pack warranty.

Much simpler dash gauges than Toyota Prius.

Good underhood access considering the complex powertrain.

Hybrid-vehicle Tax credits and HOV lane privilidges in some areas.






MINUSES:



Discount pricing hard to get.

Geeky (in my opinion) front end and split-dash styling.

Jumpy idle start/stop needs improvement.

Digital speedometer (in my opinion) not as nice or convenient as an analog one.

Hybrid battery case robs some trunk space.

Alloy wheel design not conductive to brake cooling.

OK but mediocre brakes.

Poorly finished trunk lining.

Relatively small trunk opening.

Only five (and dull, at that) exterior colors available on the Hybrid version.

IMA (Integrated Motor Assist) system a relatively tight fit underhood.

Ho-Hum steering response/handling by Civic standards.

Overboosted electric power steering.

Slight but noticeable road/tire noise.

Inconvenient ignition-switch design.

NAV version has complex stereo controls.

Small VW diesels offer comparable (or better) fuel mileage, with a less-complex drivetrain.

Hybrid version not available in the more useful hatchback body style.
(in fact, all U.S.-market Civic hatchbacks are dropped for 2008)








EXTERIOR:

There's no mistaking a new Civic sedan or coupe when you first walk up to it. The exterior body and styling is unlike that of any other U.S.-market Honda product. Unfortunately, the brilliant marketers at Honda decided, years ago, to drop most of the American-market Civic hatchbacks (with their useful lift-back versatility), then bring back the sporty Si hatchback for awhile. But now, even the Si hatchback is gone...take your choice now of an Si coupe or sedan (yes, that's right, an Si 4-door SEDAN). The young, caps-on-backwards crowd is probably not going to like that one.

If I ever become an auto marketer, I hope lightning strikes me.

Anyhow, back to the Hybrid. No choice here....the Hybrid comes in 4-door sedan form only, though the payoff, of course, is a fairly nice amount of room in the rear seat (more on that below). Though, of course, it is a matter of subjective taste, I'm not a fan of the current-generation Civic droop-nose front end styling or the little triangular peep-windows in the A-pillars. The four alloy wheels are mostly smooth-faced, polished metal (presumably for low-drag, high-mileage aerodynamic reasons) and, like past-generation Civic Hybrids, have only a few very small holes for air circulation and brake rotor cooling (I haven't talked to any Honda technicians about it, but I wonder how many of these cars come in with rotor warping and glazed pads from heat buildup). Other Civic models have more conventionally designed alloy wheels with much larger holes.

Other than that, It's truly hard to find many things to criticize outside......Hondas don't have the stellar-quality reputation they do for nothing. The sheet metal, doors, hood, and trunk lid all have first-rate construction and open and close with Swiss Watch-solidness and precision. Though the Hybrid gets only five exterior colors (colors which would bore my late grandmother....white, silver, light silver-blue, and two shades of gray), the paint job, like most Honda/Acura products, is first-rate, coming very close to Toyota/Lexus paint jobs in smoothness, evenness, and gloss. The exterior trim and hardware, likewise, is all first-rate, and the two outside mirrors feel and swivel like they were designed and mounted with the loving touch and skill of Santa's Elves. I generally like the rear-end styling, with its plain, no-nonsense approach and lack of gawkiness/swoopiness, though the sharply raked rear roofline does intrude on the trunk opening a little......more on that below. Still, the roofline is high enough, and the seats low enough inside, for decent headroom....again, more on that below.


UNDERHOOD:

Like everything else outside, the hood is well-constructed and opens/shuts precisely and solidly. It lacks only struts to hold it up, relying on a prop-rod instead, but, on this class of car, that is forgivable. (Gas struts, though, are becoming more common on cars this size, such as the Subaru Impreza). Two different motors, of course, in tandem, and the transmission/final drive unit have to compete for space underhood, and so naturally, combined with the rather smallish underhood space to start with (one of the consequences of the swoopy, droop-down front end styling), things are a little tight. The ubiquitous plastic cover for the gas engine doesn't help much either....and hides many top-engine components. Access to components along the sides of the two engines, however, is not too bad, considering the tight fit of the complex powertrain, and all of the dipsticks and fluid reservoirs are readily accessable.




INTERIOR:

Inside, things are as well-built as outside, though, admittedly, although it is subjective, I am not a fan of the split-level dash/gauges and the upper-level digital speedometer. Get into the low-slung seats (which, of course, help give relatively good headroom despite the fairly low roofline), shut the solid-sounding/feeling door, and you are rewarded with Buick-like, plush, comfortable seats, velour-type seat fabric, which also appears to be durable as well. The seat cushions are also Buick-like in that they are soft and don't feel like the rigid, slate-like cushions on so many of today's Japanese-designed cars. But, despite being fairly soft, the seats still give you a reasonable amount of support, although the Hybrid, unlike the Civic EX and Si models, is not designed for hard cornering. Leather seats are available on the Civic EX, but not the Hybrid.

In front of you, the manual tilt/telescoping steering wheel, IMO, doesn't look or feel as bad as the ones in some other Honda/Acura products, especially the ones with the sharp, poorly-done leather stitching that bites into your fingers and the flimsy, cheap trim on the spokes. The wheel in the Civic Hybrid is MUCH better, although I still didn't care for the spoke shape or trim. And the attractive big, blue, analog tachometer, directly in front of the wheel on the lower level of the dash, is where, IMO, the speedometer SHOULD have gone....with the tach to the left. But it is hard to find any fault with anything else inside. ALL of the materials are first rate, except maybe the steering-wheel spokes. The buttons, hardware, levers, vents, and switches all have durable materials, and feel fluid-precise and Swiss Watch-like in operation. Though the inside door handles are not chrome like on many other cars, even the paint on them, a sore spot on some cars, is not cheap-looking or poorly done. The manual-operated seats have well-done levers and hardware, and even the glove-box and console-lid snaps, which feel flimsy on many cars, don't have that flimsy feel either. Only the Smart-for-Two, among cars I've reviewed anywhere near this price range, had interior and seat hardware that was more durable than this.....but the Smart's interior, of course, couldn't compare with this one in plushness or comfort...it was stark and utilitarian. In comparison, this car was like an older Buick. The stereo puts out excellent sound quality for a car of this class, and, in the non-NAV version, had clearly marked and easy-to-use controls. The NAV option, of course (I checked one out), made it more difficult, but nowhere near as difficult, as, say, a BMW or Audi. Legroom was fine in the front seat, and, surprisingly for a car of this type, relatively good in the back also, even with the front seat not all the way forward. The aforementioned headroom, due to the relatively low-slung seats, was fine in front, and marginally good in back even for guys my size.....6', 2" with a cap.

I've already mentioned the speedometer and tach and the fact that I don't care for their setup....but the rest of the gauges in front of you, on the dash, are much different (and much simpler and easier to read) than in the rival Toyota Prius. In the Prius, you have grossly unconventional controls, dash electronics, and gauge readouts....one of the most distracting is the power-flow meter with the blue and red arrows that monitor the gas and electric motor use. The area in front of the Prius steering wheel, like in the Yaris and Scion xB, is totally blank....all the controls and gauges are in the middle. Fortunately, you have almost none of that in the Civic Hybrid....the dash is almost identical to that of other Civics. The only real difference, and what clues you to the fact that this is a gas-electric Hybrid, is the lighted green-bar readout that shows you how much the complex electrical system is being recharged...you can really watch it jump up and down during regenerative-braking mode when you let off the gas and press the brake pedal to slow down (the electric motor then acts in reverse and becomes a generator). More on the brakes, of course, below.




CARGO AREA/TRUNK:

The large battery case, of course (common to hybrids), takes up some of the trunk space that would otherwise be usuable. The rather sharply raked rear roofline cuts into the size of the trunk opening somewhat, limiting the size of large luggage pieces, but generally it is no problem. The dummy spare tire (a dummy spare/wheel is consistant with this class of car) sits in the usual spot under the floor. The trunk lining, perhaps to compensate for the superb fit/finish and quality of materials in the cabin, is rather poorly finished with a thin, cheap-feeling, industrial-grade of dark gray carpet that won't cushion the luggage much and will probably be scuffed easily, but then, of course, people don't have to ride back there, so it's no big deal.




ON THE ROAD:

Start up the small 1.3 liter gas engine with a conventional key (the ignition switch, low on the right side of the steering column, is not particularly easy to see or reach), and it settles into a typical Honda-smooth, quiet idle. The gas engine itself, while of course no powerhouse at 123 ft-lbs. of torque, is boosted by the electric motor's 76 ft-lbs. when strong acceration conditions dictate and the electrical system has an adequate charge. Both the gas and, of course, the electric motor are very smooth and quiet, but compared to past Honda IMA systems, two things surprised me....things I was not impressed with. First, the computer shuts the gas engine off at the first stop, even right after a cold start, and at every stop thereafter....I don't remember earlier Honda IMA systems doing that. Continually shutting the engine on and off like that while cold is not good for the oil and coolant, obviously delaying their warm-up (fortunately, the A/C compressor has an electric motor, and will run even when the gas engine is off...it does not sap power and mileage from the engine either, like conventional air conditioning). Second, I didn't care for the way the system got you going again. When the light turns green and you lift your foot off the brake (remember, the gas engine is stopped), the computer immediately starts up the electric motor, which acts as a starter and instantly re-fires the gas engine up again with a small, but noticeable kick. So the instant your foot comes off the brake, there is a small jolt and the car bucks forward (slightly)...before you even get your right foot on the gas. I don't like that programming, and it could be risky if you are very close to the guy in front of you at the stoplight. If you then hit the brake again to keep from tapping the guy in front of you, of course, the computer shuts the gas engine back off again and you are right back to Square One. Score one for the Prius over the Civic Hybrid on this one.....the Prius doesn't seem to have that problem. It can start up from a dead stop and run on either the gas or electric motor alone (or both) as conditons dictate.

Once you do start rolling, the Civic Hybrid, like the Prius, felt sluggish on initial acceleration at part-throttle. I didn't do a max-throttle start because the gas engine was brand-new and unbroken-in...electric motors, of course, generally don't need a break-in. At a little heavier throttle, the electric motor kicks in (if the batteries are charged enough) and lends a hand. Of course, this is not a Friday night drag-racer; it is purposely-designed to stretch a gallon of increasingly expensive gas, so, given its great gas mileage, one probably can't complain about the relatively snail-like pickup. There is, however, enough power to keep up with the more sedate traffic in normal driving....you won't win drag races, but it is not slow to the point of being hazardous.

The CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission), IMO, was one of the better ones.....I liked the way it operated. It was smooth, quiet, kept the gas engine RPM almost exactly in the most efficient range (usually around 2000-2200 RPM) as you accelerated, without the "rubber-banding" or "motorboating" effect you sometimes get with other CVTs. The shifter, like everything else inside, was well-made, slick, and easily operated.....and did not have that idiotic zig-zag shift pattern that many of today's shifters have. The CVT, though, does have lower "2" and "1" ranges with different final-drive ratios for conditions (such as very steep hills) where you may want more power or better engine braking.

Like the drivetrain, the tires/chassis are designed for economy, not handling, performance, or traction. The 195/65 tires and 15-inch wheels, rather tall and narrow by today's standards, have low rolling resistance for less work on the engine. That, of course, helps gas mileage, but doesn't exactly give Formula 1 handling. Steering response and handling is fine for normal, rather sedate driving, and body roll is fairly well-controlled, but the Hybrid's road manners are definitely less aggressive than on other Civics, particularly the Si. The Civic Hybrid does, however, at least to my observations, out-handle the Prius....the Prius has a noticeably softer suspension, slower steering response, and more body roll.

THe ride quality was reasonably smooth, although, like I said, not as smooth as the Prius. Bumps were felt, but not harshly, though a small but significant amount of road and tire noise penetrated the cabin (typical of many Honda products). The electric power steering was relatively numb in road feel, though not as bad as the electric power steering I've tried in some newer Saturns. Wind noise, both from the high-quality of the door seals and the superb, tight, assembly quality of the vehicle itself, was well-muted, even at 65 MPH cruising speeds....I didn't try it much faster than that.

Brakes, while OK, were not one of the car's stronger points. The ventilated front disc brakes have 10.3" rotors; the rear drums 8.7"....not very big, even by today's economy-car standards, and most cars over $20,000 today have 4-wheel discs (the Civic EX and Si do). The pedal was reasonably firm, didn't have much sponginess, and was evenly modulated, and response was OK but certainly not up to Porsche standards. Perhaps this is the reasoning of the car's designers.....the Civic Hybrid doesn't have a lot of go, so therefore it doesn't need a lot of whoa. Again, not hazardous, but just make sure you don't tailgate people.





THE VERDICT?

The obvious question here....and what most people will probably want to know.....is how this car compares to its arch-rival Prius. Having reviewed both, I can give some rough answers here. Some are facts, others are simply subjective things on my part. Both cars generally sell in the 20-30K range......the Prius has a slightly higher base price, and, because of its enormous publicity and glamor in the press, usually sells for higher dealer mark-ups than the Civic Hybrid. Dealers, however, DO charge markups for the Civic when market conditions allow.....and we are now in a period of expensive gas, which is conducive to people buying small hybrids.

Though there are marked similarities between the two in overall size, drivetrain layout, and overall quality/reliability (both are extremely well-made), that's generally about it.....from there on, they are two notably different cars. The styling is notably different between the two (I much prefer the Civic's styling both inside and out, though I dislike the split-level Civic dash). The Civic Hybrid's interior is notably more plush. The Prius's drivetrain, IMO, is better-engineered than the Civic Hybrid's, especially in the idle-start/stop programming, where the Prius is much smoother and more predictable......the Civic needs work in that area. The Civic's gauges, IMO, are better, easier to read, and less distracting than the Prius. The Prius has a smoother, quieter ride but more body roll and slower steering response....the Civic Hybrid, slightly better handling/steering response, but more road noise. Both are quite roomy inside for their outside dimensions....the Prius is actually EPA-rated, inside, as a mid-sized car. Both cars have excellent paint jobs, with a slight edge to the Prius...and the Prius has a wider color choice. The Civic Hybrid's brakes, despite their mediocrity, are slightly better than the Prius brakes with their over-sensitive electric boosters. Neither car, of course, is a drag-racing machine, and both have rather sluggish low-speed acceleration at part-throttle. Both have excellent gas mileage.....their primary forte, although the Prius, with its slightly more refined and better-engineered drivetrain, does slightly better.

But one thing must also be remembered before signing on the dotted line for a hybrid. If you are looking at one or buying one just to save money on operating costs or to take advantage of the Hybrid tax credits and the unrestricted HOV-lane access some places offer, fine, but, even with those factors, you have to consider the difference in price that the Prius and Civic Hybrid will run over conventional, entry-level, gas-powered compacts and sub-compacts. The Hyundai Accent, Kia Rio, Toyota Yaris, etc.....can be had, out the door in some cases, for $13,000 or $14,000, even less with manual transmisson. That's a LOT less money than you will spend on a hybrid like this, especially with the likely dealer markups. And, even with 87-Octane gas well over $3.00 a gallon, that large difference in purchase price will buy a LOT of gas to keep your tank full. Those conventional gas-powered small cars get highway mileage in the mid-to-high-30's.....not too far from what hybrids get, and the emission levels, while higher than hybrids, are also very close. And last, Volkswagen offers small diesels that get hybrid-type fuel mileage with less drivetrain complexity (only one motor, of course, instead of two). But, admittedly, the new low-sulfur diesel fuel that those new diesels require is more expensive than 87-Octane gas, and diesels, even with the new-technology emission controls, can't run quite as clean as hybrids. VW products, in general, don't offer Toyota or Honda reliability by any means. And, of course, diesels may not qualify for the Hybrid tax credits either.

So there, friends, is your basic choice.

Happy Shopping.

Nextourer

as usual.

I found the HCH-II a lot more fun to drive than my Prius. When I took one out for a test drive, I found myself actually trying to drive it like a normal car rather than ike out every last drop. Yes, it's slower than the Prius but for reasons I can't describe, the feel of the HCH-II was vastly different and it made for a more enjoyable drive than my Prius.


Also, that engine start when you lift off the brake brought about another issue similar to yours. When I was making a left turn, in the Prius, I would just crawl in EV mode and as I move forward to wait for cars to go by. In the HCH-II, the engine would cycle as I modulate the brake pedal. It got rather annoying to the point where I just stood still and not move til the lanes were clear.

I'm surprised you didn't mention the lack of folding seats despite the fact it was redesigned with a hybrid in mind.

Regarding brakes, well you must keep in mind that they're not used as often as regular cars because of regenerative braking so the amount of cooling isn't as crucial as a regular car. This then leads to brake pads lasting longer than regular cars (another savings... it's not just fuel remember ). My Prius brakes are at 90%/95% life left and it's 90% city (Up here, highway jaunts are limited to trips to the States or if I decide to go east somewhere for food lol)

Lastly, I believe the stereo is an Alpine unit. It sounded quite good imo.

mmarshall

Thanks.

There's no question that the HCH handles better and with less body roll, for several reasons.....among them, height, steering ratio, center of gravity, tires, and suspension stiffness ......but the HCH is not necessarily slower, especially from initial acceleration, where both of them, to me, felt rather sluggish at less than full throttle. The Prius drivetrain, however, seems more flexible, and it starts up much smoother and more predictible. It can also run on electric power alone when conditions allow (I think the new Honda IMA can too, but to a lesser extent)


Yes, that is a major point in the Prius' favor.....I brought that out in the review. Honda needs to do some more work on the IMA's idle start/up programming.

Folding rear seats would be redundant with the non-folding battery pack right behind them. That's why Honda didn't waste time or money puting them in.



Some good points. I had not thought of that. I've noticed that both the HCH-1 and HCH-2 have always had full-metal alloy wheels with few cooling holes. Maybe what you said explains why. (My original guess, in the review, was aerodynamic reasons)

Definitely better than average for this clas of car.

MD350

Thanks for this write up. Very detailed, and I do appriciate your vehicle write ups on the forum.

I have been thinking of dumping the ES350 for a hybrid, but was looking at the Camry Hybrid. Do you have any info on the Camry, and how it compares to this Civic? Is the Camry have the same engine as the Prius?

Thanks in advance.

mmarshall

I reviewed a new Camry SE last year.....I have not driven the Camry Hybrid. But, in general, I'm not impressed with the new Camry's interior....a number of parts, especially on the dash, are cheaply and poorly done.

The Camry Hybrid, from what I know about it, is not as tilted towards gas mileage as the Prius, though, of course, it outdoes other Camrys. The Camry Hybrid and the Prius definitely do not have the same gas engine. The Camry uses a 2.4L, the Prius, a 1.5L.

Compared to the Civic Hybrid, the Camry Hybrid is, of course, larger (though the Civic is surprisingly roomy inside). The quality of the Civic's interior materials (split-level dash aside) blows the Camry away. The Camry, of course, also has a larger trunk.....even with the battery pack. The main problem with the Civic Hybrid, IMO, is its unrefined idle start/stop programming.....I have already explained that in detail.

mmarshall

I may have somewhat overestimated the list price difference between the Prius and the Civic Hybrid in the review. The Toyota web site now has Prius models now starting out at just over $21,000. But the Prius is notorious for dealer markups, more so then the Civic Hybrid, though, of course, local market conditions often cause markups on both of them.

SLegacy99

I thought the Toyota dealers were offering incentives since the tax credits were gone. Pennsylvania gives you $500 for buying a hybrid if you apply in the first 6 months of ownership. My dad however, makes to much money to qualify for the federal hybrid tax credit. Lame.

I wasn't aware that Honda had engine cutoff. I guess this is good, but given that this car is smaller and less fuel efficient I don't think I'd choose it offer a Prius unless the price were better. However, I do see a fair amount around State College so people must like them.

We're hoping for a an ES hybrid in my family. My dad could settle for the Camry hybrid, but I dont think he wants to. He wants something more efficient than the GS hybrid and bigger than the IS. Unfortunately it looks like that wagon hybrid is next from Lexus and I dont see him in that at all. I could see him in an FT-HS if his back permits it.

mmarshall

Yes, different states, in those that have them, treat hybrid tax credits different ways. Some places, like NoVA where I live, also exempt hybrids from HOV restrictions.....a boon during peak traffic periods.

I don't know this for a fact, but my strong guess is that many college professors not only drive hybrids but encourage their students to buy them.
Like I said in the review, the Prius and Civic Hybrid have become classic symbols of political correctness.


Check out the new Chevy Malibu Hybrid. It is larger than an IS, a much nicer car than the old Malibu, no longer has the Camry's interior cheapness (except for plastic door panels), and has a 5 year/100,000 mile drivetrain warranty. It is not as advanced a hybrid system as the Toyota/Honda units, but still gets better mileage than standard Malibus.

Honda also did an Accord Hybrid for a few years, but it has been dropped this year....it didn't sell well because it was expensive and didn't get much better mileage than conventional Accords. I tested one a few years ago (but didn't write it up)...its powertrain didn't feel much different from the conventional Accord's either. It may be a good value as a used car, however....where you can find them.

Nextourer

It's more luxurious and quieter and has HSD but like mmarshall said, the interior leaves you wanting (esp. if you're coming from an ES or a previous Camry).

It's quite powerful for a 4 cylinder hybrid, netting 187hp and 0-60 in the 8 second range despite weighing about the same as a base ES350.

What do you mean non-folding battery pack?

I thought the HCH-I's alloys looked like steelies lol.

mmarshall

Just a sarcastic way of saying that the battery pack is there to stay.....you can't remove it or fold it up to take advantage of folding rear seats. That's probably the reason why the Civic Hybrid doesn't have folding rear seats.....the battery pack takes up the space right behind the seats, and a seat-folding mechanism is unnecessary...it wouldn't serve any purpose or add anything to the already compromised trunk space.

But.....if none of the other (non-hybrid) Civic sedans or coupes have folding rear seats (I didn't check to see), then that may just be a cost-cutting measure.

SLegacy99

I believe alot of the professors and administrators drive hybrid since campus and town is so crowded ya know. Stop and go all the time. My city mileage drops from 23 down to 19. It sucks. Hybrid really have their worth here.

My dad wont go back to GM. He had an Aurora with a Northstar that was a complete disaster. He'd be much happier in a Camry hybrid, but he's looking for luxury.

mmarshall

No. Hybrids, in general, don't use steel wheels. While, of course, cheaper than aluminum alloy, they add weight and, in some cases, may add to rolling resistance, both of which hybrid designers try to avoid to lessen the engine load and help keep the gas mileage up.

mmarshall

Some hybrids, such as the Prius, get better mileage in town than on the highway. Others, such as the Civic Hybrid, don't. It depends on how much the all-electric systems kick in, and for how long. The Prius, for example, can run for brief periods on the electric motor alone, using no gas at all.

I agree that past GM products, for many years, were an insult to our intelligence (I wouldn't have touched them with a ten-foot-pole). But those days are starting to change, especially with the new Chevy Malibu and Cadillac CTS (see my reviews).

SLegacy99

I have found that our RX doesnt get any better mileage in the city than it does on the highway unless you are in stop and go and the ICE is off. 27 mpg is nothing to balk at though. Our RX300 got 18 in town and 21 on the highway.

pvmike1

Great point. Looking green and actually saving money are two different things.

In CA, carpool lane access passes are no longer available. Interestingly, used hybrids with the pass cost as much as new hybrids, due to the demand for carpool lane use.