BMW 135i test drive
03-27-08, 11:59 AM
#31
Lexus Champion
So would you be buying into a preconceived stereotype if from a distance you saw somebody in a skirt, high heels, and with long hair and you assumed it was a girl?
At what point is a cultural norm OK to admit and accept?
I don't know about in DC but in my earlier example with the old Caddy on spinners I'd probably get a pretty good chuckle out of it if a mid-40s white guy in a suit got out just because I wasn't expecting it. It's unheard of in this area.
At what point is a cultural norm OK to admit and accept?
I don't know about in DC but in my earlier example with the old Caddy on spinners I'd probably get a pretty good chuckle out of it if a mid-40s white guy in a suit got out just because I wasn't expecting it. It's unheard of in this area.
03-27-08, 12:26 PM
#32
Regardless of opinions on the cars, knock of the "Chick Car" statements already. I find it odd that people call other cars chick cars yet get upset when someone calls the car they own a chick car. It is never ended and non productive. This is Car Chat, not Image and Perception Chat.
03-27-08, 12:37 PM
#33
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03-27-08, 01:07 PM
#34
Let's just say I'm a sucker for a MT mated to an I6 Twin Turbo on the other hand the IS350 is a comfortable sporty sedan that handles it own. But when it comes to modding the TT I6 will get the best bang for the buck.
03-27-08, 06:32 PM
#36
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Can you explain about these sensor issues? CR puts almost every BMW on its recommended list (yes, even the 7-series) and the fact is their long term reliability is above average. But maybe you know something nobody else does?
03-27-08, 07:18 PM
#37
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B/C I can link thousands of threads of BMW owners with problems and I am not sure how some people don't see it. I can also link Lexus cars having issues as well as well as other brands but BMWs have ISSUES, PERIOD.
No one BUYS A BMW FOR RELIABILITY, so lets cut that there. Well hell most are probably leased. If they were SO reliable, would then NEED a 4/50k maintenance plan? I don't think so.
It is ridiculous the strides some will make to try to PROVE the opposite of basic facts and common knowledge.
A. You have the BMW owner that SWEARS his BMW is reliable and hell more reliable than anything they have ever owned.
B. You have the Lexus owner that SWEARS his Lexus is the worst reliable car he has ever owned.
Now chances are, it CAN happen. Thing is the much BIGGER chance is the exact opposite.
A. A BMW owner who has a BMW with problems or costly maintenance after the lease/50k is up.
B. A Lexus owner who has a Lexus with very few problems and does have some maintenance as the miles pile on.
Saying a BMW might have issues or might not be reliable is not HATE, its something to seriously consider. A person saying "ALL BMWS" are unreliable is a false statement and can be considered "hate".
03-27-08, 07:37 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
And nobody buys a Lexus for performance. That doesn't mean they can't perform decently well and that doesn't mean BMW can't be decently reliable... they're just not what each brand is well known for.
Maintenance costs have little to no correlation with reliability. Warranty does. I think the warranty on both brands is about the same.
FWIW both according to JD Power and CR BMW has well above average reliability. Not Lexus-like reliability, but close enough that a lot of people will be comfortable with it.
I mean they're actually considered significantly more reliable than Acura and about as reliable as Toyota... both brands that people here seem to accept as reliable.
Since we're talking about hand-on experience... just FWIW my GS400 had a water pump fail at 30k miles when I first bought it, starter fail at 80k miles (stupid expensive to replace, too), the steering wheel motor (that moves it in, out, up, down) locked up, an issue where it sounds like a diesel when it starts up after sitting for more than a couple of days, a periodic issue with the nakamichi amp not working right, broken window switches under very normal use, and other small issues... but most of the rest I'd chalk up to quality rather than reliability.
My Audi in 26k miles had a check engine light once that went away and never returned (never explained) and that's the only issue. Oh also a map light bulb went out close to when I turned it back in.
My BMW so far has had zero issues except for a rattle in the door when heavy bass played through the stereo.
I wasn't really that impressed with it as my first Lexus. Though I know that stats and averages eventually will prevail and if I got another Lexus there's a good chance I'd have a better experience with it. And if I were going to buy a car rather than lease, I'd STILL go with a Lexus over a BMW or Audi (though I'd probably take a Honda over either due to lower cost of repairs).
That just goes to show I understand the difference between my experience and the norm. Yet I'm still unbiased enough to give credit where credit is due. BMWs are not currently that bad in terms of reliability...
If they were SO reliable, would then NEED a 4/50k maintenance plan? I don't think so.
FWIW both according to JD Power and CR BMW has well above average reliability. Not Lexus-like reliability, but close enough that a lot of people will be comfortable with it.
I mean they're actually considered significantly more reliable than Acura and about as reliable as Toyota... both brands that people here seem to accept as reliable.
Since we're talking about hand-on experience... just FWIW my GS400 had a water pump fail at 30k miles when I first bought it, starter fail at 80k miles (stupid expensive to replace, too), the steering wheel motor (that moves it in, out, up, down) locked up, an issue where it sounds like a diesel when it starts up after sitting for more than a couple of days, a periodic issue with the nakamichi amp not working right, broken window switches under very normal use, and other small issues... but most of the rest I'd chalk up to quality rather than reliability.
My Audi in 26k miles had a check engine light once that went away and never returned (never explained) and that's the only issue. Oh also a map light bulb went out close to when I turned it back in.
My BMW so far has had zero issues except for a rattle in the door when heavy bass played through the stereo.
I wasn't really that impressed with it as my first Lexus. Though I know that stats and averages eventually will prevail and if I got another Lexus there's a good chance I'd have a better experience with it. And if I were going to buy a car rather than lease, I'd STILL go with a Lexus over a BMW or Audi (though I'd probably take a Honda over either due to lower cost of repairs).
That just goes to show I understand the difference between my experience and the norm. Yet I'm still unbiased enough to give credit where credit is due. BMWs are not currently that bad in terms of reliability...
Last edited by Threxx; 03-27-08 at 08:06 PM.
03-27-08, 07:43 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Note that the '07 GS 350 AWD was on Consumer Reports' list of cars to AVOID. Lexus can mess up, and BMW can produce a gem. We shouldn't just lump every car produced by a particular make as reliable/unreliable. I don't recall how the 335i was in reliability, but I think THAT would be a good indicator of the 135i's reliability.
03-27-08, 07:44 PM
#40
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And nobody buys a Lexus for performance. That doesn't mean they can't perform decently well and that doesn't mean BMW can't be decently reliable... they're just not what each brand is well known for.
Clearly I know that. Proves my point though. Most buy a Lexus for reliability, not performance and put up with a less sporting ride. Most buy a BMW for image/sport, not reliability and put up with issues.
Maintenance costs have little to no correlation with reliability. Warranty does. I think the warranty on both brands is about the same.
It is related. A more reliable car has less maintenance, thus less costs.
FWIW both according to JD Power and CR BMW has well above average reliability. Not Lexus-like reliability, but close enough that a lot of people will be comfortable with it.
Again, I NEVER said and will say they are a poorly built/reliable brand. That is not the case. What I am saying is, it is NOT hate for someone to bring up the point that a BMW may/will have issues. That is not hate. Someone saying "A Lexus is not a peformance car" is for the most part correct, that is NOT hate.
I mean they're actually considered significantly more reliable than Acura and about as reliable as Toyota... both brands that people here seem to accept as reliable.
Since we're talking about hand-on experience... just FWIW my GS400 had a water pump fail at 30k miles when I first bought it, starter fail at 80k miles (stupid expensive to replace, too), an issue where it sounds like a diesel when it starts up after sitting for more than a couple of days, a periodic issue with the nakamichi amp not working right, broken window switches under very normal use, and other small issues that I'd chalk up to quality rather than reliability.
Every Lexus of mine has had issues, they are not perfect. However they are the most trouble free cars I have owned and everyone in my circle that does not own a Lexus. My previous outside mechanic was die-hard about BMWs. He owned multiple ones and swore by their engines. He also said if he wasn't a mechanic, he probably would not own one b/c he has to fix them often, especially electronics.
My Audi in 26k miles had a check engine light once that went away and never returned (never explained) and that's the only issue. Oh also a map light bulb went out close to when I turned it back in.
My BMW so far has had zero issues except for a rattle in the door when heavy bass played through the stereo.
I wasn't really that impressed with it as my first Lexus. Though I know that stats and averages eventually will prevail and if I got another Lexus there's a good chance I'd have a better experience with it. And if I were going to buy a car rather than lease, I'd STILL go with a Lexus over a BMW or Audi (though I'd probably take a Honda over either due to lower cost of repairs).
That just goes to show I understand the difference between my experience and the norm. Yet I'm still unbiased enough to give credit where credit is due. BMWs are not currently that bad in terms of reliability...
I agree, BMWs are not bad but are not GREAT. So if someone says it may have issues, again, that is not HATE, that is just stating the obvious.
Clearly I know that. Proves my point though. Most buy a Lexus for reliability, not performance and put up with a less sporting ride. Most buy a BMW for image/sport, not reliability and put up with issues.
Maintenance costs have little to no correlation with reliability. Warranty does. I think the warranty on both brands is about the same.
It is related. A more reliable car has less maintenance, thus less costs.
FWIW both according to JD Power and CR BMW has well above average reliability. Not Lexus-like reliability, but close enough that a lot of people will be comfortable with it.
Again, I NEVER said and will say they are a poorly built/reliable brand. That is not the case. What I am saying is, it is NOT hate for someone to bring up the point that a BMW may/will have issues. That is not hate. Someone saying "A Lexus is not a peformance car" is for the most part correct, that is NOT hate.
I mean they're actually considered significantly more reliable than Acura and about as reliable as Toyota... both brands that people here seem to accept as reliable.
Since we're talking about hand-on experience... just FWIW my GS400 had a water pump fail at 30k miles when I first bought it, starter fail at 80k miles (stupid expensive to replace, too), an issue where it sounds like a diesel when it starts up after sitting for more than a couple of days, a periodic issue with the nakamichi amp not working right, broken window switches under very normal use, and other small issues that I'd chalk up to quality rather than reliability.
Every Lexus of mine has had issues, they are not perfect. However they are the most trouble free cars I have owned and everyone in my circle that does not own a Lexus. My previous outside mechanic was die-hard about BMWs. He owned multiple ones and swore by their engines. He also said if he wasn't a mechanic, he probably would not own one b/c he has to fix them often, especially electronics.
My Audi in 26k miles had a check engine light once that went away and never returned (never explained) and that's the only issue. Oh also a map light bulb went out close to when I turned it back in.
My BMW so far has had zero issues except for a rattle in the door when heavy bass played through the stereo.
I wasn't really that impressed with it as my first Lexus. Though I know that stats and averages eventually will prevail and if I got another Lexus there's a good chance I'd have a better experience with it. And if I were going to buy a car rather than lease, I'd STILL go with a Lexus over a BMW or Audi (though I'd probably take a Honda over either due to lower cost of repairs).
That just goes to show I understand the difference between my experience and the norm. Yet I'm still unbiased enough to give credit where credit is due. BMWs are not currently that bad in terms of reliability...
I agree, BMWs are not bad but are not GREAT. So if someone says it may have issues, again, that is not HATE, that is just stating the obvious.
03-27-08, 07:57 PM
#41
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Note that the '07 GS 350 AWD was on Consumer Reports' list of cars to AVOID. Lexus can mess up, and BMW can produce a gem. We shouldn't just lump every car produced by a particular make as reliable/unreliable. I don't recall how the 335i was in reliability, but I think THAT would be a good indicator of the 135i's reliability.
The 135 is based off the 335 so 335 quality is a good indication of quality for it.
I agree 100% with your comment on bold and stated that.
03-27-08, 08:14 PM
#42
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by 1sicklex
It is related. A more reliable car has less maintenance, thus less cost
I'd actually say based on that Lexus has 'more' maintenance... both in cost and in frequency (cost being based on what the service by BMW would cost if not covered under the 4yr 50k mile plan... they do tell you on the print-outs you get after your visit).
But I still maintain that generally speaking maintenance frequency and costs have very little to do with reliability.
I'll bet if you go look at the scheduled maintenance of a Chrysler Sebring right now that it's cheap as anything for at least the first 100k miles... practically nothing but oil changes until that point. That doesn't at all indicate that the Sebring is a reliable car, though.
Honestly your logic just doesn't make sense to me here. You're saying because BMW includes free maintenance for the first 50k miles that's a bad indication of their reliability. I say it's just a nice perk of ownership. If Lexus did that too I think it'd be great, though it would hurt their dealer profits pretty badly since the dealers make a killing on maintenance.
Similarly, if Lexus bumped their bumper to bumper warranty to 8 years 100k miles would you say that is in indication that they have poor reliability? I'd say exactly the opposite... they're so confident in their cars that they're willing to vouch for them and cover the cost of repairs up until that point. Similarly BMW covering maintenance makes me feel similarly.
03-27-08, 08:35 PM
#45
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1. I am a BMW fan (yes, I like their cars a lot)
2. I am not oblivious to their issues (my 550 has had several)
3. I sure hope that I have never portrayed their cars as totally reliable. But they are not the POS that many members of this board make them out to be. The fact is they are above average and the people here on CL tend to think they are worse than a Land Rover.
Agreed - they purchase them for other reasons. But people who shy away from them because "BMWs are not reliable" are misinformed.
60%+ I believe is the number. Anybody know what the Lexus# is?
A big part of owning a luxury car is the scary maintenance bills (trust me I know, I owned two Lexus vehicles at one time). With a BMW this is not a worry. But seriously, if you wanted to combine Maintenance with reliability, the worst thing BMW did was include their maintenance as they increased service intervals with the introduction of free maintenance and we all know that that does NOT help reliability...
In the end here, my comment was about the people on this board who continually bash BMWs because of their horrible reliability e.g. " my roommate had a 3-series and it was always in the shop"......
The fact is, they are more reliable than most people here give them credit for.
Another fact is that a similar Lexus vehicle will be more reliable. I don't argue this - but what I do argue is when someone claims that "Lexus has no issues and will run forever." As mentioned, Lexus vehicles are getting more and more technology and therefore have more and more issues. They are FAR from perfect although probably one of the better attempts at making a car bulletproof (my experiences notwithstanding).