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mmarshall 03-22-08 07:25 PM

Review (Finally)....BMW 128i Convertible
 
By CL member request, a review of 2008 BMW 128i Convertible.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...e/default.aspx


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http://www.circlebmw.com/pics/1-series-convertible.gif

http://www.autofans.us/images/BMW/20...rtible%205.jpg

http://www.bmwcalifornia.net/images/...nt-350px-2.gif

https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1134...bdd89f56_o.jpg

http://www.blog.automotiveaddicts.co...dash-angle.jpg



In a Nutshell: A mini 3-Series with some exceptions, but an almost 3-Series price.


I've been waiting a while to do this review. Several of you asked for a 1-Series write-up, and I have been planning one for months....I myself was curious about the car, too. In the pictures, I thought it was the best-looking Chris-bangle BMW design I've seen yet, though, in general, it doesn't look a whole lot different from the current 3-Series (more on that below). I got to see one at the D.C. Auto Show in January, but only as a static display....and the BMW folks there didn't even bother to unlock it because the car had not been released yet in North America. But, now, the car is officially on the market, and is on sale at dealerships.

THe 1-Series has been on sale in Europe for several years, but, until now, BMW execs were wary of bringing it to the American market, even though the Mini Cooper, also sold by selected BMW dealerships, has been quite a success. Finally, the powers-that-be at BMW have been persuaded to put them on the boat and bring them over here, though we in America, for now, still are not getting 1-series sedans, hatchbacks, diesels, or AWD versions (1-series diesels are strongly rumored to be on the way later this year; AWD xi models possible after that, but less certain).


Four models of the 1-series are now, to start, being offered in the American market; a 128i 2-door coupe, 128i Convertible, 135i coupe, and 135i convertible. Two engines are offered; the 3.0L non-aspirated in-line 6 in the 128i, and the 3.0L twin-turbo version in the 135i. Two transmissions are offered, a conventional 6-speed manual, and BMW's excellent 6-speed Steptronic. Prices start at $28,600 for base 128i coupes, but, of course, run considerably higher for 135's, convertibles, and heavily optioned cars.....my test car ran over $41,000.

As I already have had some experience with the 3.0L twin-turbo in the 335i review a few months ago, I decided to try out the 128i instead, with its normally-aspirated 3.0L. This, I figured, would also make some sense, considering that gas prices have risen sharply since January and that the Premium gas required by virtually every BMW engine is not approaching or exceeding $4.00 a gallon in some areas....I figured that right now the 128 would have somewhat more sales appeal then the 135i, except for those who want a small, high-powered drag racer.

New 1-series models didn't start coming into the D.C. area until just a few days ago. Just about all of them, up to now, have come in pre-sold...they rolled off the truck, right into PDI, to the clean-up/detail shop, and into the hands of waiting customers (no doubt for a mark-up, like with so many other hot-selling new cars). Demand, currently, at least for a while, clearly exceeds supply. This morning, a pretty nice guy I know in the BMW sales buisness told me he had a couple of new 1-series there unsold, to come on out and look at them, so I did. I climbed into my Outback and headed out....right into a cold front. It was in the low 40's on the ground, with a light wind and a cold rain mixed with sleet/ice pellets...that shows you how cold it was upstairs. Fortunately, it was a rather narrow line of clouds/precipitation, not enough to really mess up the roads for a test-drive (especially in a low-traction, RWD 1-series), and it let up just after I arrived at the dealership. The roads quickly dried with the wind and clearing skies.

At the BMW shop, they had one unsold 128i convertible, a 135i coupe that had just been sold and was awaiting its new owner, an unsold 135i convertible, and an unsold 128i coupe that had just come off the truck and was in PDI. I asked about the 128i coupe in PDI, and they said it would be a couple of hours before it was ready for a test-drive (I always check underhood and tire pressure myself; they often forget to adjust tire pressure). So, as I didn't have all day to wait, I settled on the available 128i convertible in front....as I said, I didn't think a 135i test would be as informative or useful as a 128i convertible, even though I would have rather have tested the coupe. These cars simply don't sit around long right now, and you have to take the chance when you get it.

So, a 128i convertible it was. Results below.












Model Reviewed: 2008 BMW 128i Convertible


Base Price: $33,100


Major Options:


Cashmere Silver Metallic Paint: $475 (What a crock)

Taupe Boston Leather: $1450

Sport Package: $1200

Steptronic Automatic Transmission: $1275

Sport Leather Steering Wheel ($100) with Paddle Shift:
(Interesting....the paddle shifters come with the Sport Package but the sport steering wheel doesn't)

Power Front Seats with Driver's Seat Memory: $995

Heated Front Seats: $500

Gray Poplar Wood Trim: $500

BMW Assist: $750



Destination/Freight: $775


List Price as reviewed: $41,120





Exterior Color: Cashmere Silver Metallic

Interior: Taupe Boston Leather


Drivetrain: RWD, longitudinally-mounted 3.0L in-line 6, 230 HP @ 6500 RPM, 200 Ft-lbs. torque @ 2750 RPM,
6-Speed Steptronic Automatic with Sport Manual Shift.





PLUSSES::thumbup:


As always....the fabulous BMW power steering.

Again as always....the first-rate BMW chassis engineering.

Near ideal ride/handling combination.

Smooth, refined engine and drivetrain.

Free BMW factory-recommended maintenance for the first 4 years covers even wear items.

Interior leather nicer than on some other BMW products.

Well-done brakes.

Smooth but crisp-shifting Steptronic automatic transmission.

Comfortable Sport seats.

Solid exterior sheet metal and hardware.

Mostly good interior hardware.

No I-Drive.

Slick-operating power fabric top.

Relatively good wind blast protection with the top down.

Good body rigidity with top down.

Eight (yes, EIGHT) different leather interiors offered in 5 different colors.

Two different wood and one aluminum trim packages offered.

Classy exterior paint colors...but a little on the dull side.

Superlative primary gauges.











MINUSES::thumbdn:


No sedan models offered yet in the U.S. market.

Steep price for this size car.

Unecessarily awkward, standard two-step engine start/stop.

Useless rear seat for large adults (convertible).

Cramped trunk space (convertible).

Complex, difficult-to-decipher stereo controls even without I-Drive.

OK but mediocre stereo sound.

Primary gauges partly hidden by sport steering wheel (for people my height).

Relatively low windshield header (convertible).

OK but mediocre paint job.

Rather plain-looking interior door panels.

Underhood engine access partly hidden.

Soft-top convertible lacks the integrity of the 3 series' folding hardtop.

Ripoff $475 extra charge for metallic paint.

Cheap-looking, unmarked, painted-silver shift paddles.

Flimsy-looking/feeling turn-signal stalk typical of many German cars.

No oil dipstick (?)

Relatively low ground clearance means careful driving and difficult washing.

Different-sized (128i Sport Package) front/rear tires/wheels prevents conventional tire rotation.

Questionable reliability of the electronics.

Premium gas required.





















EXTERIOR:

As you walk up to it, the first impression you get of the 1-series, especially the coupe, is that of a 3-series on a diet. The general styling between big and little brother coupes (no 1-series sedan, of course) is very similiar, and from a distance, say beyond fifty feet or so, it's not that simple to tell them apart. With big and little brother convertibles, it's easier (with the tops up).....the 3-Series convertible has a body-colored, folding hardtop while the 1-Series convertible has a black fabric top (black seems to be the only color offered). of course, in black, a 3-series folding hardtop would look much like the black fabric roof of the 1-series. I wasn't wild about some of the exterior paint colors, but several of them were rather classy (my favorite was the Montego Blue Metallic). There was both a Jet Black Non-Metallic and a Black Sapphire Metallic...it is uncommon to see both Metallic and Non-Metallic blacks on the same car. The Alpine White Non-Metallic offered is an appliance/refrigerator white, without the nice Oyster White Pearl found on some competitors (one of my favorite paint jobs, BTW). My test car had the Cashmere Silver Metallic, a slightly off-silver Champaigne. BMW, like other German manufacturers, still has an outrageous extra charge for metallic colors...in this case, $475. Nothing but a ripoff, in my opinion, and, like the Energizer Bunny, I'm going to keep on b**ching about it as long as they keep doing it. The paint job itself, like on most BMW's, was OK but rather mediocre for cars of their price range.....smooth enough to be relatively fee of orange peel, but without a lot of gloss.

The exterior hardware is all solid and well-done (a marked change from some of the first Chris Bangle-designed BMWs), and the exterior sheet metal is relatively solid and thick, especially the tank-like hood. The trim is all solid and well-attached. I particularly like the way the car lacks the extreme sweep-back/triangular headlights, taillights, and rakes of so many other newer cars today.....I am definitely not a fan of the motorized jelly-bean look. To me, a car should look like a CAR, not a bullet.

The convertible top, of course, being black and fabric, lacks the more integrated look of the body-colored retractable hardtop on the 3 Series convertible, but appears to be made of a good quality and at least fairly well-insulated/layered fabric. Like virtually every other convertible today, it has a built-in glass rear window and and electric heater/defroster....fortunately, the days of cheap, plastic convertible rear windows that crazed, wrinkled, and turned yellower than a fresh lemon are gone.

The ground clearance, especially with the lower-body/rocker panels, is definitely on the low side, which, while giving it a rather sporty look and some aerodynamics, also makes it difficult to get a hose under and wash the undercarriage. And, of course, you have to be careful going over speed bumps and angled driveways not to damage the lower bodywork. I also liked the look of the five-spoke mag-type alloy wheels (BMW calls them Star Spoke), but the use (on the 128i Sport Package) of different-sized tires and wheels on the front and the rear prevents conventional tire rotation with the stock package. (Both front and rear wheels, with the Sport package, are 17's, but the fronts are 17 x 7.0 and the rears 17 x 7.5, with 205/50-17 tires front and 225/45-17 tires rear.





UNDERHOOD:

Open the hood, with its tank-like solidness and nice hold-up struts, and the Old Faithful 3.0L in-line six, a BMW staple for many years, greets you with its big plastic top-engine cover....in this version, tuned for 230 HP and 200 ft.-lbs of torque (which is fine for this car, as we'll see below). As with many sports cars and sport-oriented sedans, the engine is set way back in the engine compartment for optimal weight distribution towards the middle of the car.The whole rear third of the engine block is pretty much hidden under the top of the firewall and the body cross-braces. Of course, the relatively small underhood compartment forces this to some extent....there isn't much space for the front of the engine, fan, and the radiator. There is a little room for access around the sides of the engine, at least in the front exposed part, and the fluid reservoirs/containers were easily accessible. I did not notice an oil dipstick.....like some other new BMW's, it doesn't seem to have one. Shame, shame.







INTERIOR:

Open the rather solid doors (not quite as solid as the hood), get in, and a rather nice interior awaits you, although a few things could be better, and you'll know at a glance that this is not an upper-level BMW. But, as I said, there are a number of nice things inside. The Sport-package seats are comfortable, supportive, and (since I've lost weight) not overly confining. I liked the look and feel of the optional Boston leather more than I did the Navajo Leather used in a number of other BMW products....like the Navajo Leather, it is somewhat rough and grainy in the center portion of the seats, but is nice and smooth/soft around the edges. Eight different interior leather packages are available in 5 different colors (not many automakers match that these days), with two different wood trims, and, of course, the aluminum for those who don't like wood. My car had the optional ($500) Gray Poplar wood.....I didn't like the color quite as much as the standard, more brownish Burl Walnut. Unfortunately, BMW cost-cut a little by not running either the wood or aluminum dash trim into the door panels...the door panels look a little plainer, especially in back, than other, more upscale BMWs.

The primary dash gauges, typical of BMWs, are superb.....round, clear, well-marked, and easily read, although the reddish-orange night-lighting on them is not my favorite (you find that red-orange dash lighting on many BMWs, Audis, Pontiacs, Mazdas,and a number of other sport-oriented vehicles, but I like the white or light blue dash lighting much better). The real answer, of course, is to do what the Ford Mustang does and offer a color-programmable dash-light switch....I wish more vehicles had that. Unfortunately, the top of the manual tilt/telescope steering wheel, for a person of my height and with the drivers'seat set where I want it, tends to block off the view of the top of the primary gauges....at times, you have to dip your head a little to see where the needles are and read the numbers.

The interior hardware is generally good and solid except for the bargain-basement, El-Flimso stalks on the steering column. Those cheap-looking stalks seem to be one of the banes of the German car industry...I constantly see what are more or less the same parts on a number of different VWs, Audis, and BMWs. But all of the other controls, buttons, and levers (thankfully, no I-Drive) seem solid, well-attached, and well-marked. The stereo, while not the worst I've heard, was not one of the better ones in sound quality.....I wasn't that impressed with it. And its controls, depite of the lack of I-Drive, were rather difficult and complex to use......best to do that while you are stopped, or leave that function to a front-seat co-pilot while you keep your eyes on the road.

The top of the windshield header and sun visors, in the convertible, tends to be about even with my eye level when I have the seat set where I want it......perhaps because of the design of the top-latching mechanism. Front-seat headroom in the convertible was not a problem; generally not one in the coupe either.....but the coupe's standard power glass moonroof, of course, takes up a little of that headroom. Tall people may have to rake the seatback a little to clear the moonroof housing. Legroom in front was fine in both versions, but the rear seat, for all practical purposes, is useless for grown adults, especially in the convertible. Even with the front seat all the way forward and the seatback tilted full-forward, I simply couldn't get through the opening between the seatback and the B-Pillar at all without risking a muscle-pull or a dislocated joint. I actually had less trouble getting in and out of a Lotus Elise last August....a tiny car about three or four feet high and purpose-built for Munchkins.

The power-top feature works quite well. With the car at a stop, of course, your foot on the brake, and the transmission in PARK, simply hit a button on the lower-center dash, which lights up with a red light as the electronics take hold. All four windows drop automatically, the header-latches unclip, the body-panel and boot-covers pop open, and the top does its thing, neatly folds back into the rear compartment, and the body-panel covers lower back into place. Presto. The whole operation, as with most power-tops, takes about 20 seconds or so. The red light goes out on the button you are pushing and turns green when the top is safely down and covered. Then, when you are done motoring Al-Fresco, just hit the button next to it and the process repeats in reverse. I don't know if BMW designed it this way, or if it was an electrical defect in my test car (German cars are notorious for electrical defects) but the four windows didn't seem to go back up automatically with the top the same way they went down...you had to raise them with the separate power-window switches. Once the top is down, on the road, there is little wind buffeting or turbulence inside the cabin, even with the relatively low windshield headers, though the local weather, while physically dry enough, wasn't conducive to keeping the top down long enough for a real test, as I indicated in the opening remarks.








CARGO AREA/TRUNK:

Open the rather solid-feeling trink lid, and the trunk space, in the convertible version, is, naturally, smaller and more cramped than in the coupe. It also has a smaller trunk opening. But small-to-medium pieces of luggage and packages went in with no problem. Unlike the VW Eos convertible I tested last week, the center of the trunk does not require a special panel installed for the power top operation, so all of the available trunk space is usable, whether top up or down. The trunk is finished with a generally nice-feeling but thin grade of gray carpet, and all U.S. market 1-Series get run-flat tires, which means no spare or jack in the trunk. This, of course, is convienient, but run-flats tend to wear quickly and be expensive to replace.




ON THE ROAD:

Start up the ubiquitous 3.0L in-line six with a START/STOP button....but BMW makes you first insert the plastic transponder "key" into a dash-mounted hole underneath the button before the button will work. Oh, excuse me, you want to start the engine, like with its competitors, in just ONE step......WITHOUT having to insert the plastic key first? Cough up another $500, brother. With BMW, that is the "Key-Proximity" option. My car, of course, didn't have it. For over $41,000. Go Figure.

Auto marketers are the bane of my existance. :egads:

Anyhow, once that is out of the way, it's a much more pleasant world........once again, you are reminded of what great driving machines BMW products are. As I said in the opening remarks, I always look forward to the chance to drive one, though, for several reasons, I probably wouldn't own one.

The in-line 6, like the similiar Lexus 3.0L in-line 6, starts up quiet and with almost turbine-like smoothness. Power delivery is smooth and relatively quiet, except at at strong acceleration, where some exhaust drone is heard. Once revs start to build, the engine has enough spunk, even with the convertible's extra weight and the automatic transmission, to give you a mild push in your seat, although, of course, it is noticeably less powerful than the twin-turbo, 300 HP version I tested in the 335i. The Steptronic automatic transmission was also smooth and quiet, and shifted both crisply and silky in either manual or automatic mode.....a hard combination to match outside of the superb VW/Audi DSG (Direct-Shift-gearbox). The shifter itself was well-designed, moved easily, and was and a pleasure to use....nothing like the awkward, hard-to-use electronic shifters in some other BMWs. I wasn't impressed with the steering-wheel mounted paddle-shifters, though. They were unmarked, without a (+) or (-) to indicate up or downshifts, and painted a cheesy-looking silver on one side and black on the other. Once you get used to them, though, and which direction to push them for up/downshifts, they aren't so hard.

Now for the icing on the cake.....BMW steering and handling. In my opinion, with the possible exception of Porsche (and most Porsches are too small and cramped for my tastes), there simply is nothing like it. BMW steering and chassis dynamics are in a class by themselves. The 128i exhibits the same superb steering action and telepathic feel that I've described in other BMWs...like them, you can virtually steer this car blindfolded. The front end goes exactly where you point it, and the tires and power steering tell you exactly what is happening in your hands. Body roll is minimal, response is quick, and, at low speeds, the turning circle, though BMW doesn't give it in the brochure, seemed extremely short, though obviously not to Smart-car standards. Still, you can manuver this car in and out of some fairly confined spaces. The suspension, with an almost ideal combination of ride/handling, has almost the same firm, telepathic feel as the steering....it doesn't beat you up over rough roads, even with the Sport Package and low-profile tires, yet still tells your butt exactly what is going with the car's chassis under the seat. Even more astonishing, IMO, that BMW engineers can do this with a convertible chassis, with its inevitable body/cowl flex, which, fortunately, even with the top down, seems to be at a minimum. However, to be fair, it was too cold and windy this morning to really drive far enough with the top down to give it a real test. Still, I had the top down long enough to get a fairly good idea of the body rigidity with handling and over bumps.

Wind/road noise, as expected, was not as low, with the fabric top up, as with the 3-Series'convertible hardtop...you could clearly hear wind rush, especially in the back near where the top folds and pivots...it seemed louder on the driver's side than the pasenger's. Some road noise from the Sport Package's high-performance tires also made its way into the cabin, though it was not objectionably loud....I've heard much worse, especially with some truck/SUV off-road tires.

Brakes were not quite as strong or as sponge-free as the ones on the 3-series, with their larger rotors, but were still well-enough designed for a place on the car's PLUSSES list above. They were responsive, reasonably free of pedal sponginess, evenly proportioned, and, of course, come with state-of-the-art electronic braking aids. The brake pedal was well-designed; I had no problems with my big shoe hanging up on the pedals like I did last week with the VW Eos. The only thing really noticiably missing was the super-firm pedal of the 3-series' brakes, but I found the 128's brakes fine for my driving.




THE VERDICT?

Once again, I find a new BMW's road manners to be superb. The BMW steering/chassis engineers earn their money....these guys DON'T take a lot of coffee breaks or three-hour lunches. They have produced a convertible with road manners and body rigidity virtually that of a BMW coupe/sedan....and, on the road, the 128i coupe, of course, would only be better yet. A small price, in the convertible, is paid in road/wind noise....a larger one in trunk space and rear-seat room. And, of course, the 128i's fabric top lacks the security, in high-crime areas, that the 335i's folding hardtop gives.....anyone can break into it with a sharp knife.

And BMW marketers need to get rid of some of the insulting ways that standard equipment and options are put into this car's pricing structure. One should not have to pay almost $500 just to get certain colors or metallic paint. One should also not have to cough up ANOTHER $500 just to get a START/STOP ignition system without a separate key insert, particularly when no other manufacturer using START/STOP buttons has that restriction. And why not a 128i 4-door sedan for the American market, so, while still no limo, grown adults can climb into and out of the rear seat without contorting like a Bachman Pretzel?

Still, if you don't regularly carry adults in back, want a compact car, enjoy BMW road manners, and can afford the rather high price tag for this size car, this may be the car for you. Yes, the car is pricey, especially for its small size.....BMW figured out, long ago, that its one-of-a-kind steering and chassis dynamics attracted a large enough group of well-heeled driving enthusiasts that they could charge whatever the market could bear...and bear it did.

And....for those of you who don't have to have one right now, as I stated above, according to the BMW people, a diesel version is coming here later in the year, and, (maybe) an AWD 128/135xi. That (the AWD) would be the model I myself would look at if I ever bought a BMW...I don't care much for the X3 or X5, except for their superb BMW chassis/steering.

bitkahuna 03-22-08 08:21 PM

Great review as always. Kind of what I expected.

I think it's going to do pretty well in the market despite the price, although I think it may cannibalize 3 series sales.

Och 03-22-08 08:44 PM

Holy crap... I stopped reading when I saw the 41K price.

mmarshall 03-22-08 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by Och (Post 3382173)
Holy crap... I stopped reading when I saw the 41K price.

Bimmers don't come cheap. But you can get the price well below 40K if you get a coupe and forego some options. The question is....with demand high for these cars and supply low (and, of course, profit in the options), will dealers order many of them that way? The BMW shop I was at today was taking special-orders for them at customer request...but delivery will take some time.

I do agree, however, that this car is priced too closely to the 3-Series. That's partly because it shares the same engines and drivetrains with the non-M 3-series. BMW will not, as yet, import the cheaper Euro versions here with the smaller engines and cloth interiors, perhaps because of the expense of re-certifying them to American standards.

mmarshall 03-22-08 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by bitkahuna (Post 3382121)
Great review as always. Kind of what I expected.

I think it's going to do pretty well in the market despite the price, although I think it may cannibalize 3 series sales.

Thanks.:) It also remains to be seen if Mini Cooper sales, which, of course, go out of the same dealerships, are affected.....though the 1-Series is a lot closer to the 3-Series than to the Minis.

I personally think that, once the 1-Series novelty wears off, 3-Series sales will pick back up when people see that it is more car for not much more, if any, money. The 1-series, of course, is useful for fitting in smaller parking spaces and better manuverability in confined areas....it makes a slightly better urban car, with the Mini, of course, making an even better one. But the Mini doesn't have BMW comfort or sophistication.


If BMW makes good on the promise of a diesel 1-Series for the American market, though, all former bets are off....that, of course, will bring in a lot of people who want fuel economy.

Perfection 03-22-08 09:40 PM

Great car, great review, awful price. :( now how about a M3 or IS-F review? :)

mmarshall 03-22-08 09:52 PM


Originally Posted by Perfection (Post 3382296)
Great car, great review, awful price. :( now how about a M3 or IS-F review? :)

Thanks.:)

IS-F coming up when the car is available....probably next month, but it will be tough to get an unsold one.....might take awhile.


I'll do an M3 if you are seriously interested in the car......but I've already reviewed a new 335i sedan and, for the money, dollar-for-dollar, I think that it's probably a better overall buy than an M when you consider the relative closeness in performance and the wide difference in price. Check out a 335i and see if you agree. And, the smaller, lighter 135i also somes with the same twin-turbo engine, which, of course, means even more performance at a lower price (BMW quotes 0-60 in 5.1 seconds for a manual 135i coupe).

Perfection 03-22-08 10:12 PM


Originally Posted by mmarshall (Post 3382312)
Thanks.:)

IS-F coming up when the car is available....probably next month, but it will be tough to get an unsold one.....might take awhile.


I'll do an M3 if you are seriously interested in the car......but I've already reviewed a new 335i sedan and, for the money, dollar-for-dollar, I think that it's probably a better overall buy than an M when you consider the relative closeness in performance and the wide difference in price. Check out a 335i and see if you agree. And, the smaller, lighter 135i also somes with the same twin-turbo engine, which, of course, means even more performance at a lower price (BMW quotes 0-60 in 5.1 seconds or a manual 135i coupe).

My next car would either be a IS-F, M3 Sedan, or LS460.:) Only bad thing about the 135i is that it is way to small for me as I am a little over 6 feet lol, otherwise it would be a great car. For me, price isn't a issue as long as it is under 75K. I still can't justify paying over 45K for a 135i though. :p

PhilipMSPT 03-22-08 10:14 PM

Excellent review Mike!

Here is the major concern I have with the 1-Series:

Do you think the 1-Series will take lots of buyers away from its bargain-luxo-sport competitors? Or do you think the 1-Series will take sales away from its big brother the 3-Series?

I wondered if the 1-Series will be BMW's "best enemy" -- a vehicle that sells well, but may take away sales from other models in their line-up...

mmarshall 03-22-08 10:21 PM


Originally Posted by Perfection (Post 3382346)
My next car would either be a IS-F, M3 Sedan, or LS460.:) p

Here's the special LS460 review I did for the Holiday season two years ago.....but back then, my reviews were not as long or as detailed as they are now. Still, I was impressed enough with the car to call it perhaps the best overall RWD sedan i had ever driven.


https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...07+lexus+ls460

Perfection 03-22-08 10:26 PM


Originally Posted by mmarshall (Post 3382355)
Here's the special LS460 review I did for the Holiday season two years ago.....but back then, my reviews were not as long or as detailed as they are now. Still, I was impressed enough with the car to call it perhaps the best overall RWD sedan i had ever driven.


https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...07+lexus+ls460

Thanks! Quite a convincing review, however I still have 2-3 months to test drive the M3 and IS-F and make up my mind. :)

dunnojack 03-22-08 10:26 PM

how big is that nav screen?
that thing looks dinky

mmarshall 03-22-08 10:35 PM


Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT (Post 3382347)
Excellent review Mike!

Here is the major concern I have with the 1-Series:

Do you think the 1-Series will take lots of buyers away from its bargain-luxo-sport competitors? Or do you think the 1-Series will take sales away from its big brother the 3-Series?

I wondered if the 1-Series will be BMW's "best enemy" -- a vehicle that sells well, but may take away sales from other models in their line-up...

Thanks.:)

I tried to address some of those questions from other posts above. One point I.....and the others......did not bring up was how it might do against the Audi A3, perhaps its closest German competitor here in America (though the A3 is a hatchback). That will be interesting....and, of course, may depend on whether BMW brings the AWD xi version over here. The closest competitor to the 1-Series convertible, of course, is the VW Eos.....which I just reviewed last week. The Eos, for a little less money, one-ups the 128i convertible by having a more durable, secure folding hardtop and the marvelous DSG transmission, but its trunk space is much more severely compromised than in the 128i, and, though its steering feel and handling is excellent, it is not quite the equal of BMW's.....nothing is. Both cars have about the same torque.....but the 128i gets it in a bigger engine block without a turbo.


If we get the diesel 1-Series, as promised, that will, of course, bring in people who want max fuel economy, seeing as how BMW has not, to my knowledge, developed a hybrid.

mmarshall 03-22-08 10:39 PM


Originally Posted by dunnojack (Post 3382365)
how big is that nav screen?
that thing looks dinky

I just posted that picture as a general interior reference....my car did not have NAV or the manual transmission. Most BMW's without I-Drive also come without the NAV.

I couldn't find an Internet picture exactly like the interior I had, and I don't have a digital camera for uploading.

SLegacy99 03-22-08 10:41 PM

I like the styling of the new BMWs, but we haven't been all that impressed with my dad's 330xi. Sure its a fun car to drive, but its major downfall is that you cannot shift it smoothly and that the tires wore out at 17,000 miles. I was playing soccer in my front yard and I could hear my dad comin up the road from more than a block away. The interior handles were also chipping, which BMW fixed. My dad commented to me that he really has been much happier with Lexus given vehicle quality, pricing and haggling, and that they come to your house and pick it up for service.

I like the 1 series, but I just can't respect it given that its 200 lbs heavier than my midsize AWD vehicle. I know that its got a bigger engine and more feature that equal weight, but I feel like at the very least BMW should have started with a base 2.5L if they didn't feel that they could offer the 4 cylinder. A car like this shouldn't be getting the same crappy gas mileage of a 3 series. And why not offer the turbo 3.0L as an M1?


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