Koma

iTrader: (3)

I'm probably in the minority but I really wanted this to be a liftback, even though it adds weight I would've traded the increased weight/reduced rigidity for more convenience.

You'll all have to just wait and see what I've chosen over this car.

ST430

Don't worry, I will flog it alright. And while it may have similar power to weight ratio as an MR-S, remember I'm looking for an upgrade. There's no need to defend Toyco, as I'm a staunch supporter. As I said previously before, I was disappointed and was hoping for more.

ydooby

The FR-S will be an upgrade in terms of interior room and cargo space. At ~2600lbs it's going to be one of the lightest if not the lightest of all production 2+2 coupes that meet the safety standards today.

Again, stick to 2-seaters if practicality is of no value to you. But to people who need to deliver tofu while drifting their way down the mountain twisties, the FT-86 is just perfect.

Kostamojen

This might pertain to you.

I just wrote an article about why there is no way this car will or would have been under 2600lbs:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2286

jruhi4

Excellent analysis there, but I'd like to add a thought:

You state that "The EJ engines form this period were SOHC 1.8 or 2.2 motors with MUCH smaller heads (Phase I) and the engine was lighter than later 2.5 SOHC and DOHC motors."

What about the newer Subaru flat 4 that will go into FT-86? The FB engines, according to Wikipedia, have "lighter pistons and connecting rods", and the FA20 going into the FR-S/BRZ is essentially the FB20 with the addition of Toyota's D4S direct + port injection system.

Might the new engine help keep things lighter overall, or does the DOHC and direct + port injection drive the weight back up?

spwolf

MR2 was 2200lbs with 1999 safety standards in place, and 2 seats of course.

we already know the weights of FT86 though, leaked brochure is real so info is real. So 1190Kg - 2618lb for the stripped out model, 1210Kg- 2662lbs for the low-spec, and 1230Kg - 2706lbs for the top model.

spwolf

and this should also be faster than 2000-2006 MR-S.

ST430

If you're talking straightline sure. On an auto-x or smaller road course, it would probably be a wash. Power isn't everything, yes i understand that. But it is much easier to make more power than to subtract weight. And weight contributes much more to overall performance then power in terms of handling, braking, acceleration, etc.

ST430

Nice brown-nosing there ydooby. You know, I used to own a 600hp Evo IX that has much more practicality in 4 doors and AWD and weighed in at a track tested 3k lbs. So please, spare me this "practicality" BS. Maybe this is why they made it a Scion in the US, because all these kids like ydooby will think they're Jay Chou in an initial D movie getting passed up byothers, but hey...they're kool and "practical".

ydooby

Different strokes for different folks. Just because there's an Evo with 4 door and 4WD weighing at 3,000lbs and there's an MR-S with 2 seats weighing at 2,500lbs it doesn't mean there can't be something in between. Let's just say this car may not be for you then.

BTW I'm well past the age of a "kid". No need to get so up and personal when we're only discussing about the different purposes of these cars.

MR_F1

I think you are missing that they key development goal was to maximize accessible fun and not maximize performance; while both goals are not mutually exclusive, there are not exactly the same either. You are thinking strictly in terms of paper. I'm not defending anyone, I just think you have your expectations in the wrong place.

The MR2 is at best a second car, the FR-S could be an only car. I'm pretty sure they could have stripped out the rear seats, bumped the power, thrown in a couple CF components and made for a lighter, meaner car, but then you limit the audience, and lets be real, this car has to sell and sell well. I think it hits the right demographic, and if we want more coupes and sports cars from Toyota, I think it's a given that this has to do well, and I think they are giving it the best chance possible (providing that they don't mess up the pricing) in this particular configuration.

Kostamojen

A lot of the component weight reduction on the FB motors was to increase efficiency by reducing rotating mass.

The overall weight of the engine actually went up slightly (less than 10lbs if I recall correctly). The biggest reasons are the switch to a chain drive with an aluminum cover and to DOHC with the variable timing. All of which added weight compared to the old timing belt, plastic cover, SOHC engines.

I don't have access to the materials that listed the specifics, but there was a introductory brief in the service manual for the FB25 when that came out for the forester that listed the weight difference.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Guys, no personal attacks. Please establish a sense of community in Car Chat here.

spwolf

look, 2580 for low weight model is pretty much the best they can do without use of aluminium, for rwd 4 seat coupe. FIat 500 Abarth is only 47lbs lighter, and thats considerably smaller FWD car. If you want to Autox it, put some considerably lighter wheels (stock are something like 20lbs per wheel), strip out the interior and you will do better than that.

but you cant compare MR2 2 seater, from 1999, that even then got only 4 stars in crash rating tests, to the 4 seater car made in 2012 which has 9 airbags standard.

I was never impressed with MR-S speed until I turboed mine in any case so I know where are you coming from. Of course, that made it difficult to handle. But at the same time, ZZ engine in MR-S was never really made to be fast either.

ST430

As I have said previously before, I was rather disappointed from Toyco because i expected more inline with what was developed in the Supra going all out and hoping they would take the same mojo into the FR-S. Maybe this car isn't target at my particular demographic (have spare money, extra cars for "practicticality", so just need a fun cheap car to toss and thrash around). It seems more oriented to kids as the sole vehicle (with a seemingly tight back seat, but whatever). Anyhow, i'm not sure why folks keep brining up the MR-S in the discussion, as i only pointed it out as illustration that Toyco can do a lightweight sports car and i wanted it as an upgrade my present car (i like to change every couple of years). I'll test drive it myself and check out the production version, but really hope there is a further souped up version otherwise the new 276hp i4t huyndai genesis coupe (even as ugly as that new front fascia is), seems really intriguing....thanks for caring!