Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS! - Page 128 - Club Lexus Forums


Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!

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Old 12-17-11, 02:14 PM   #1906
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Loving the TRD package, even though quad-exhaust is unnecessary for a car with 200hp.
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Old 12-17-11, 02:55 PM   #1907
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I like what I have seen and read so far regarding this car. The only thing is Scion Brand. At work in our mech eng group, 3 out of 6 engineers around 30 yrs old like it. We are very much interested to get one if it is toyota. But none of us is interested in buying scion instead we may be looking for BRZ instead. I would rather drive Subaru or Toyota not Scion.
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Old 12-17-11, 03:15 PM   #1908
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TRD:


that looks amazing.
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Old 12-17-11, 03:43 PM   #1909
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Originally Posted by 08IS350 View Post
I like what I have seen and read so far regarding this car. The only thing is Scion Brand. At work in our mech eng group, 3 out of 6 engineers around 30 yrs old like it. We are very much interested to get one if it is toyota. But none of us is interested in buying scion instead we may be looking for BRZ instead. I would rather drive Subaru or Toyota not Scion.
i dont see anything wrong with scion? The EE's and ME's i know would probably mistake it as a toyota anyways lol
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Old 12-17-11, 11:20 PM   #1910
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The TRD looks incredible.. Nicely done.
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Old 12-17-11, 11:29 PM   #1911
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Originally Posted by 08IS350 View Post
I like what I have seen and read so far regarding this car. The only thing is Scion Brand. At work in our mech eng group, 3 out of 6 engineers around 30 yrs old like it. We are very much interested to get one if it is toyota. But none of us is interested in buying scion instead we may be looking for BRZ instead. I would rather drive Subaru or Toyota not Scion.
All the better, as its the same car, built by the same people, and going ultimately into similar bank account, whoever is marketing and selling. All we have to wish for is that it DOES sell well, no matter what brand. As that is the hope of the Engineers, and that is the wish of any true car enthusiasts in making a car a legend.

I'm to the point where the core basic of this car is SO good, every company should just lincese it and sell their own versions!! HAHAHAH!
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Old 12-17-11, 11:43 PM   #1912
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Originally Posted by MPLexus301 View Post
Loving the TRD package, even though quad-exhaust is unnecessary for a car with 200hp.
The most interesting news that came out concurrent with this is that fact that this car will be sold in Japan with a white-body (mono-spec race base) form that will be void of most interior and exterior comfort goods, that will be a bare car with N1 race spec equipment, so that various development / racing teams will be able to outfit the car for racing. That concept has been around and practiced by TRD Technocraft for many previous cars, but what's significant about this time, is that this car is internationally notorious now, and such package may have global appeal for the first time. Let's keep our eyes peeled and see where Toyota/Subaru might take it next.

If the Marketing people see it as a magnet for certain customers, it might be another "Balboni Edition or the LP550 Superleggera 2" where you get less stuff for more money...LOL

If the PR guys see some deep appreciation for grassroots racers, it will be a "91 MR2, serial# 2200~2450" where 250 turbo USA cars were produced missing T-bar roof, for the sole purpose of SCCA users who needed such spec. and some really concerned and sincere person at Toyota catered that magic production spec. And we got a MR2 Turbo with no sunshine, for $600 less!

Last edited by motohide; 12-18-11 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 12-18-11, 07:05 AM   #1913
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The biggest problem as I see it is that young people don't want performance cars anymore.
i think that's part of it, but increased speed enforcement, higher insurance rates, high gas prices, endless new safety and environmental rules (CARB? ), less disposable income and debt, and increased traffic have all also dampened enthusiasm for 'fun' cars.

plus, if it's possible i think young people are more brand conscious than ever, and buy a car more often to be seen in, like a fashion accessory (cough young women in 3 series /cough), and not to have fun with.

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A huge reason for this shift is that there just aren't fun cars out there anymore that the average young person (much less a 16-year-old) could wish for even on the used market.
what fun cars are times past are you comparing with? almost any car can be 'fun' i think!

you're right though, the FT86 is a hugely positive vehicle, and hopefully will get more young people excited about cars again.
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Old 12-18-11, 12:10 PM   #1914
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Young people want performance cars... they simply cant buy them cheaply anymore nor can they as easily get credit.
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Old 12-19-11, 04:24 AM   #1915
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna View Post
i think that's part of it, but increased speed enforcement, higher insurance rates, high gas prices, endless new safety and environmental rules (CARB? ), less disposable income and debt, and increased traffic have all also dampened enthusiasm for 'fun' cars.

plus, if it's possible i think young people are more brand conscious than ever, and buy a car more often to be seen in, like a fashion accessory (cough young women in 3 series /cough), and not to have fun with.



what fun cars are times past are you comparing with? almost any car can be 'fun' i think!

you're right though, the FT86 is a hugely positive vehicle, and hopefully will get more young people excited about cars again.
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Young people want performance cars... they simply cant buy them cheaply anymore nor can they as easily get credit.

True, but myself being a tuner enthusiast in Japan and USA, and from the early 80's~ today, there certainly is a different air about Japanese compact car tuning. In my days, back in the 80's, only Japanese tuners existed for most of Japanese cars, and HKS, Trust among others were in infancy, and by today's standards extremely archaic. However the parts were very exotic and expensive. There was a certain reward for those who could afford such drastic upgrades (and I mean in those days, header, single turbo, and air filter/EFI mod box combo ran close to $20,000... ) Today, air filter, mufflers are a dime a dozen, its normal for anyone even remotely into cars to spend a few hundred bucks on some of the gazillion upgrades. Perhaps it hasn't really become dead, or unpopular, but we've sort of hit a threshold of what can be done within means, and even the most serious of builds today are nothing out of the ordinary after 30 years of Tuner Wars, and Magazine-worthy builds... It's just a part of us, in a much more generic way than it was 30 years ago, when changing a set of wheels or going low profile suspension or tires was a pretty big thing. For some of you, it may be hard to imagine, but once upon a time, HKS was the ONLY guys who made bolt-in intake filter kits for very select Japanese (I say that because the acronym JDM did not exist) cars, and a simple high flow air filter cost $350 bucks!! before any pipes and adapters were added!!

AS such, younger tuners are not as eager to even think about out-tuning something, as there are always people who just rag on you for whatever you DON'T have or did wrong, thanks to the internet!!!

In my days, we wrenched on the most basic things, and we honed our driving skills to feel that minute, tiny difference each $200 part had to offer. Today, computers drive our cars, and we can't possibly improve much on a factory spec 280hp cars, and all of them are so quick out of the dealers that newbies can't really hone the skills or even feel for changes. It's just that much more alienated and detached while driving enjoyment is at twice the speeds, and mishaps costing 10 times more than it did in those days.

If anything, the FT86 siblings, FRS, 86, and BRZ are just the ticket, if us old fogeys have a chance at teaching, sharing, and collaborating on true joys of automotive enthusiasm that is more tactile and involved in depth, and not based on chassis dynamometers and G-Tech Pro, but more with your hands, eyes, ears, and the sensation of the butt strapped to a seat.

I think its all about feeling for the 5 hp we gained by wrenching, and putting it to good use... rather than slapping on a can of "Whoop ***" laughing gas for whopping 50% gain in power, blowing up a perfectly good engine, and calling it a day with 3 years of payments left on the thing.

Last edited by motohide; 12-19-11 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 12-19-11, 04:42 AM   #1916
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Minkara Web Blog member shows the new Aisin manual 6MT of the FT86 siblings.

The shell case and most of the mechanical elements seem similar to the Altezza, S15 transmission, however clearly there are guides and larger gear teeth than the previous units. From what I felt in the short drive in the FRS tough, is that the issue of 3rd being slightly sloppy to throw in quickly, has been eliminated and that the new transmission feels firm and smooth into each gear when nice and warm. I have high expectations for this gearbox as well as the all-new Torsen LSD equipped differential box. (at least from comparison with AE86, everything is much bigger and smoother...and it looks to handle whatever duty cycle a tuner has for this light car...)

I see nice deep splines on the output shaft too



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Old 12-19-11, 05:48 AM   #1917
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Moto, for the transmission when you drove it you said it felt unlike any other Toyota unit you've driven before correct?
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Old 12-19-11, 07:43 AM   #1918
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Originally Posted by lexusscturbo View Post
Moto, for the transmission when you drove it you said it felt unlike any other Toyota unit you've driven before correct?
someone said it doesnt feel like any subaru unit :-) (EVO I think)... I mean it is Aisin Toyota transmission, supplier for Toyotas, Lexus's and Porsche. I dont think it is possible for it not to feel like Toyota transmission :-)
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Old 12-19-11, 08:00 AM   #1919
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Originally Posted by lexusscturbo View Post
Moto, for the transmission when you drove it you said it felt unlike any other Toyota unit you've driven before correct?
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Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
someone said it doesnt feel like any subaru unit :-) (EVO I think)... I mean it is Aisin Toyota transmission, supplier for Toyotas, Lexus's and Porsche. I dont think it is possible for it not to feel like Toyota transmission :-)
Ok let me clarify, the MRS (ZZW30) felt a slight bit sluggish after some mileage, possibly due to the cable operated remote linkage.
The AE86's T50 is direct but sloppy by today's standards, even after rebuilds, and throw is rather long, coming from an older E70/E40 Corollas.
Tacoma SR5 transmission feels durable but not too sporty at the lever or ratios obviously... Supra A80's Getrag feels very German and different than a Toyota..throw was a bit heavy and clunky but very direct and never skipped a beat.
IS/Altezza feels similar I suppose, but it always felt a but clumsy going into 3rd when warm, but overall it was great.
This FRS unit feels quicker to shift, throw is very short and positive, and just feels like it wants to run through each gear on a raceway... (I haven't done that yet, but I will let you know if I ever get a chance. So far everyone who DID drive says its glass smooth and precise, easy to operate.)

Perhaps what I wanted to say is it feels like the best attributes for all Toyota RWD transmissions converged to make this one feel better than ever. LOL!

Last edited by motohide; 12-19-11 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 12-19-11, 08:02 AM   #1920
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Our good friend in Tokyo, Keishin Tamashiro, reports to us with more pictures of what makes us tick... The guts of the FT86 siblings...
Thanks!!!



Torsen LSD Differential housing - FT86 by [email protected], on Flickr


Subaru FA20/ Toyota 4UG-SE flat four for the BRZ/86/FRS by [email protected], on Flickr

Doesn't look like we'll be burning our arms reaching behind the headers for oil filter change!!~~~ "D


Toyota (Japan) , a new motto, throwback to the old "Fun To Drive" by [email protected], on Flickr<br /><br />
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