A 5.0 Liter V8 Coming Soon To Infiniti ? (+ future Infiniti line-up)
06-20-07, 03:18 PM
#46
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One thing is that Lexus has way deeper pockets than Infiniti, and it shows. Our cars are packed with far more technology than their Infiniti competition, because pioneering such innovations costs lots of money as we all know. One of these areas is engine technology, where Lexus clearly has the upper hand.
As someone else mentioned, the performance and evaluation of an engine has a lot more to do with packaging and application than horsepower numbers. The 1UR-FSE displaces only 4.6 litres and makes 380hp. That's 82.6hp/L as compared to Mercedes at 69.45hp/L or 75hp/L from BMW. Such efficiency on the Lexus engine is admirable. Also consider that the UR has direct injection and VVT-iE, things that aid power, power delivery, and gas mileage. Another noteworthy remark is that the LS is capable of ~29MPG (see LS460 forum) when driven passively, a feat that no other V8 has been able to nearly match, despite it's impressive power output. Lastly, consider that the engine is mated to an eight speed automatic, which allows greater acceleration through increased gear changes and also the transmission contributes to such superior gas mileage when cruising.
I am not stating that Infiniti cannot build a comparable V8, but they aren't a company that has typically led the industry with fantasitic drivetrains, then again, Lexus was not either until recently but they thankfully have Toyota's financial backing to invest in such technologies. I had read recently that Infiniti would be employing direct injection in their next generation of engines, so hopefully that is fact and not just a rumor.
Considering Infiniti: Lots of power on paper? Yep. Pretty good acceleration? Definitely. Class leading transmissions? No. Superior gas mileage? Nadda. That said, their powertrains are typically not cutting edge, and it seems that Lexus has thrown a yardstick with the UR V-8 and if Infiniti does come close to matching the power, performance, and fuel efficiency of the engine then it will be a very admirable feat. Not saying it cannot be done, but it will require an amount of R&D and $$ that it doesn't seem like Infiniti has been capable of before. That said, if the new Q is to succeed, it needs to be unlike any Infiniti before
As someone else mentioned, the performance and evaluation of an engine has a lot more to do with packaging and application than horsepower numbers. The 1UR-FSE displaces only 4.6 litres and makes 380hp. That's 82.6hp/L as compared to Mercedes at 69.45hp/L or 75hp/L from BMW. Such efficiency on the Lexus engine is admirable. Also consider that the UR has direct injection and VVT-iE, things that aid power, power delivery, and gas mileage. Another noteworthy remark is that the LS is capable of ~29MPG (see LS460 forum) when driven passively, a feat that no other V8 has been able to nearly match, despite it's impressive power output. Lastly, consider that the engine is mated to an eight speed automatic, which allows greater acceleration through increased gear changes and also the transmission contributes to such superior gas mileage when cruising.
I am not stating that Infiniti cannot build a comparable V8, but they aren't a company that has typically led the industry with fantasitic drivetrains, then again, Lexus was not either until recently but they thankfully have Toyota's financial backing to invest in such technologies. I had read recently that Infiniti would be employing direct injection in their next generation of engines, so hopefully that is fact and not just a rumor.
Considering Infiniti: Lots of power on paper? Yep. Pretty good acceleration? Definitely. Class leading transmissions? No. Superior gas mileage? Nadda. That said, their powertrains are typically not cutting edge, and it seems that Lexus has thrown a yardstick with the UR V-8 and if Infiniti does come close to matching the power, performance, and fuel efficiency of the engine then it will be a very admirable feat. Not saying it cannot be done, but it will require an amount of R&D and $$ that it doesn't seem like Infiniti has been capable of before. That said, if the new Q is to succeed, it needs to be unlike any Infiniti before
Infiniti has only had a couple engines in its short history. Lets not forget it took toyota/lexus 10 years to catch up to Nissan/Infiniti in the v6 department. Give credit where credit is due and building an engine isn't all about resources. BMW still builds the best non-hybrid engines in the world.
06-20-07, 11:49 PM
#47
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The 390HP Infiniti 5.0L V8 at this point is still a rumour, and not 100% confirmed, nor is this engine on the market. If you want to include rumours in this discussion, than the GS460 is rumoured to have between 380 - 400HP (from a 4.6L V8), the IS-F is rumoured to have 420+ HP (from a 5.0L V8), and the upcoming M3 will have 420HP from a 4.0L V8.
Right now, the Audi RS4 has 420HP from a 4.2L V8.
06-20-07, 11:51 PM
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One thing is that Lexus has way deeper pockets than Infiniti, and it shows. Our cars are packed with far more technology than their Infiniti competition, because pioneering such innovations costs lots of money as we all know. One of these areas is engine technology, where Lexus clearly has the upper hand.
As someone else mentioned, the performance and evaluation of an engine has a lot more to do with packaging and application than horsepower numbers. The 1UR-FSE displaces only 4.6 litres and makes 380hp. That's 82.6hp/L as compared to Mercedes at 69.45hp/L or 75hp/L from BMW. Such efficiency on the Lexus engine is admirable. Also consider that the UR has direct injection and VVT-iE, things that aid power, power delivery, and gas mileage. Another noteworthy remark is that the LS is capable of ~29MPG (see LS460 forum) when driven passively, a feat that no other V8 has been able to nearly match, despite it's impressive power output. Lastly, consider that the engine is mated to an eight speed automatic, which allows greater acceleration through increased gear changes and also the transmission contributes to such superior gas mileage when cruising.
I am not stating that Infiniti cannot build a comparable V8, but they aren't a company that has typically led the industry with fantasitic drivetrains, then again, Lexus was not either until recently but they thankfully have Toyota's financial backing to invest in such technologies. I had read recently that Infiniti would be employing direct injection in their next generation of engines, so hopefully that is fact and not just a rumor.
Considering Infiniti: Lots of power on paper? Yep. Pretty good acceleration? Definitely. Class leading transmissions? No. Superior gas mileage? Nadda. That said, their powertrains are typically not cutting edge, and it seems that Lexus has thrown a yardstick with the UR V-8 and if Infiniti does come close to matching the power, performance, and fuel efficiency of the engine then it will be a very admirable feat. Not saying it cannot be done, but it will require an amount of R&D and $$ that it doesn't seem like Infiniti has been capable of before. That said, if the new Q is to succeed, it needs to be unlike any Infiniti before
As someone else mentioned, the performance and evaluation of an engine has a lot more to do with packaging and application than horsepower numbers. The 1UR-FSE displaces only 4.6 litres and makes 380hp. That's 82.6hp/L as compared to Mercedes at 69.45hp/L or 75hp/L from BMW. Such efficiency on the Lexus engine is admirable. Also consider that the UR has direct injection and VVT-iE, things that aid power, power delivery, and gas mileage. Another noteworthy remark is that the LS is capable of ~29MPG (see LS460 forum) when driven passively, a feat that no other V8 has been able to nearly match, despite it's impressive power output. Lastly, consider that the engine is mated to an eight speed automatic, which allows greater acceleration through increased gear changes and also the transmission contributes to such superior gas mileage when cruising.
I am not stating that Infiniti cannot build a comparable V8, but they aren't a company that has typically led the industry with fantasitic drivetrains, then again, Lexus was not either until recently but they thankfully have Toyota's financial backing to invest in such technologies. I had read recently that Infiniti would be employing direct injection in their next generation of engines, so hopefully that is fact and not just a rumor.
Considering Infiniti: Lots of power on paper? Yep. Pretty good acceleration? Definitely. Class leading transmissions? No. Superior gas mileage? Nadda. That said, their powertrains are typically not cutting edge, and it seems that Lexus has thrown a yardstick with the UR V-8 and if Infiniti does come close to matching the power, performance, and fuel efficiency of the engine then it will be a very admirable feat. Not saying it cannot be done, but it will require an amount of R&D and $$ that it doesn't seem like Infiniti has been capable of before. That said, if the new Q is to succeed, it needs to be unlike any Infiniti before
06-21-07, 02:59 AM
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Right now, this is where the competition stands (keep in mind these are all fairly new engines, Infiniti being the last to upgrade their V8s):
Mercedes-Benz S-Class/E-Class: 5.5L V8 (382hp)
Lexus LS460/460L: 4.6L (380hp)
BMW 750i/550i: 4.8L (360hp)
Audi A8/A8L/A6 4.2L: (350hp)
Infiniti Q50/M50 (if the rumours are true): 5.0L (390hp)
So yeah, like I said, this new 5.0L from Infiniti would have class-leading power.
The 390HP Infiniti 5.0L V8 at this point is still a rumour, and not 100% confirmed, nor is this engine on the market. If you want to include rumours in this discussion, than the GS460 is rumoured to have between 380 - 400HP (from a 4.6L V8), the IS-F is rumoured to have 420+ HP (from a 5.0L V8), and the upcoming M3 will have 420HP from a 4.0L V8.
Right now, the Audi RS4 has 420HP from a 4.2L V8.
Right now, the Audi RS4 has 420HP from a 4.2L V8.
Audi RS4 is not in the same class.
Lexus IS-F is not in the same class.
BMW M3 is not in the same class.
Lexus GS460 is in the same class and we will see if Lexus can produce more than 390hp from that 4.6L. If they cannot and the Infiniti rumours are in fact true (and all sources seem to indicate that this is the case), then the new 5.0L will in fact lead the rest of the pack until they all upgrade their engines in the next cycle (which should be 5-6 years from now going by previous patterns of MB, Lexus, BMW, etc).
06-21-07, 07:52 AM
#51
Dont forget MB has a V8 which currently makes 391HP (?). Albeit, it's a 5.5L. So I guess you could be able to make the argument that this new Nissan 5.0 is more "advanced" because it does it with .5L less.
06-21-07, 07:58 AM
#53
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The V8 in S550, E550, CLS550 is 382hp & 391 lb.ft.
However, the S63, E63 etc. is now a naturally aspirated V8 with 525hp.
So depending on how you define "class" . . .
However, the S63, E63 etc. is now a naturally aspirated V8 with 525hp.
So depending on how you define "class" . . .
06-21-07, 08:22 AM
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Of course. This entire thread is based on the speculation that the new V8 will be a 5.0L and having at least 390hp. So far, this is what has been rumoured for the next Q & M models. So based on that speculation, Infiniti would once again lead the field in power for this class (which they have done previously). If the rumours are false, then they won't
But based on what they've put out in the past (4.5L VK producing 340hp, 3.5L VQ producing 308hp, 3.7 VQ producing 330hp), I have no doubt that a 5.0L would pump out at least the rumoured 390hp, if not more.
At least nissan/infiniti has a V-8, unlike honda/acura.
06-21-07, 01:43 PM
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Of course. This entire thread is based on the speculation that the new V8 will be a 5.0L and having at least 390hp. So far, this is what has been rumoured for the next Q & M models. So based on that speculation, Infiniti would once again lead the field in power for this class (which they have done previously). If the rumours are false, then they won't
But based on what they've put out in the past (4.5L VK producing 340hp, 3.5L VQ producing 308hp, 3.7 VQ producing 330hp), I have no doubt that a 5.0L would pump out at least the rumoured 390hp, if not more.
But based on what they've put out in the past (4.5L VK producing 340hp, 3.5L VQ producing 308hp, 3.7 VQ producing 330hp), I have no doubt that a 5.0L would pump out at least the rumoured 390hp, if not more.
If speculation is true, the GS460 will have 400hp, leaving the M behind. The LS will also get the power increase the following model year, so the infiniti won't be the class leader
06-21-07, 05:17 PM
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Lexus GS460 is in the same class and we will see if Lexus can produce more than 390hp from that 4.6L. If they cannot and the Infiniti rumours are in fact true (and all sources seem to indicate that this is the case), then the new 5.0L will in fact lead the rest of the pack until they all upgrade their engines in the next cycle (which should be 5-6 years from now going by previous patterns of MB, Lexus, BMW, etc).
Even if the new Nissan V8 achieves class leading HP, it won't keep the lead as long as some Nissan engines historically have.
06-22-07, 07:00 AM
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All based on "if" of course. Also keep in mind that rumours say that the Lexus 4.6L V8 may get replaced/complemented by a 5.0L V8. The IS-F will use a performance tuned version of the 5.0L V8. The Lexus 5.0L V8 already exists. The LS hybrid in fact uses the 5.0L V8, but it's detuned for fuel economy. Even at a detuned level, in the LS hybrid the 5.0L V8 makes 389HP. So technically the top Lexus V8 *in this class* is the 5.0L V8 which makes 389HP detuned, and likely 400+HP at normal tune. The 5.0L V8 in the IS-F, with special heads and performance tuning, will have well over 400HP.
Even if the new Nissan V8 achieves class leading HP, it won't keep the lead as long as some Nissan engines historically have.
Even if the new Nissan V8 achieves class leading HP, it won't keep the lead as long as some Nissan engines historically have.
That's true. But really. No one manufacturer will EVER have a constant advantage in ANYTHING. They are all aware of each other and will attempt to one-up the other. This goes for all the premium makers. So it's quite pointless to start pissing about who has a HP advantage.
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