spwolf

well that is really just perception... Subaru's AWD without any electronic devices is now stone age. It is worst perfoming AWD system on test in recent german Autobild test on ice and snow, worse than really cheap system used in Fiat's.

On the other hand, Toyota is world leader in AWD systems. They sell more Land Cruisers (different variations) than does Subaru sell cars, total... Toyota owned companies sell AWD systems to Fiat, Alfa and GM in Europe. New Saturn Suv will use Toyota AWD system (rebadged Opel and Chevy).

Subaru is very small car maker... they sell around 600,000 cars per year, around the world, total.

Problem with Toyota, and that is number #1 problem toyota will always have, is that you can not be known to be great in anything specific, when you sell 9 million cars around the world.

Thats why there is Scion, there is Lexus, and thats where Subaru would fit as sports brand.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

Well Subaru isn't exactly a sports brand. They're more of an AWD brand. Not all of their vehicles are sporty. In fact most aren't known for being sporty except there STI branch (which the US has only received one generation of the WRX STI).

IS_Mine

Wow. That would be great!

UDel

A twin turbo Subaru flat six in a new Supra would be awesome or a new Subaru SVX with a twin turbo flat six based off of a rwd lexus platform would be nice too.

mmarshall

As one of CL's biggest Subaru fans, I don't care if Toyota buys them out, as long as they agree to KEEP Subaru's flat four/six engines and the Subaru AWD design....THAT is what makes Subaru the great company it is. While Subaru's AWD can't quite compare with, say, Acura's superb SH-AWD in the new RL, Subaru literally wrote the book on how to do inexpensive ( under-$35,000 ) car-based AWD.

spwolf

yep, but they could be...

mmarshall

Not as far as I'm concerned.....and I've driven a lot of AWD's. The AWD system on my Outback is one of the best I have ever seen for snow traction.

Well, there's nothing really WRONG with Toyota AWD systems, except that, like with many other manufacturers, their AWD systems are hooked onto transverse-mount engines that require more gears to re-route the power straight back, thereby increasing the complexity and decreasing the efficiency. Subaru avoids this by the design of the flat-4 and flat-6 engines that have the output shaft going straight back to start with. The flat-design of the engines also allow a low center of gravity...for proof, check out the difference in handling between a Subaru and a higher-center-of-gravity RAV4 or CR-V.

mmarshall

With one exception ( the Tribeca ) Subaru has turbo / high-performance versions of EVERY vehicle line that it sells in the U.S. market.

mmarshall

COULD be sporty? See my above comments.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

Not all turbo cars are sports cars.
I would categorize all the turbo models Subaru has as sports cars.

Lexmex

I love the Forester and convinced a co-worker to get one (he had a Corolla), because the RAV-4 was more expensive here and did not offer as much room. Unfortunately, they do not sell the turbocharged Forester in Mexico.

Incendiary

What variations of Land Cruisers do you mean? Like Prado and the regular one?

mmarshall

I don't know this for a fact, but my strong guess is the low-octane Mexican gas. In the turbo models with their high compression ratios, the computer would probably have to retard the spark so excessively to avoid ping that the engines would hardly run at all....they wouldn't get out of their own way. You would probably have to dump in non-leaded octane booster, and these vary widely in quality and effectiveness without plugging the engine and fuel system up with deposits.

plex

iTrader: (11)

Interesting merge I hope Toyota still let Subaru do their own thing but also share technology with each other. Hmmm maybe a turbo version of all Lexus AWD models

JessePS

Now this would be nice to see in a Toyota Aygo 500cc Flat-4 Supercharged Diesel Hybrid with an AWD and SMT option, move over Smart Fortwo. This thing would be fuel efficient as hell and fast!

Probably have about 100hp, fuel efficiency probably like 100 mpg lol