thetopdog

I don't know if this is really true, I don't even know if the average person on the street even knows there's a connection between BMW and Mini. And the Mini has no BMW badging on it anywhere, it's really a separate brand. I think the image of a 7 Series is as affected by the Mini as the image of an S Class was affected by the Neon (which is to say, not at all)

STIG

Toyota outsold BMW by large margin, and last time I check, Toyota Crown is a lot more luxurious than 1 series.

Anyhow, I honestly think Lexus is going after MB crowd while Infiniti is going after BMW crowd. You can argue that IS-F is quite sporty but I think IS-F is aiming squarely at next generation C55 AMG more so than new M3.

LexFather

My god we haven't even seen the IS-F tested yet.
I think people need to stop with this
LExus= Japanese Benz
Infiniti=Japanese BMW

CRAP.
How about
Lexus=Lexus
Infiniti= Infiniti

Both companies offer luxury and sporty cars. Both offer SUVs, Infiniti has one the size of a house, Lexus has he LX. Both offer manuals in their entry level cars, Infiniti has one V-6 so they have it in that one. Outside of that, no Lexus or Infiniti offers a manual, while BMW offers PLENTY in almost anything outside the X5/7 (there is a X3 manual in Europe).

This generalization is now OUTDATED and RIDICULOUS for both companies. It might be more clear Lexus is now one of the industry leaders with the Germans but Infiniti is trying to go their own way.

Hell, if we look at GERMANS, their cars now look like Lexus and Infiniti's styling wise in many ways. The Germans went the Japanese way offering more content at a cheaper price.

marshmallo

It is probably true that Infiniti is more dangerous to BMW than Lexus,
but that is because the buyers they are chasing after overlap quite a
bit. My theory is that Infiniti has earned some of their respect by
actually winning comparos against the 5 and 3 series while Lexus has
not.

I wonder why he would make a statement like that in light of the fact
that the new LS is a smashing success and has got to be taking sales
away from the 7 series...

LexFather

I agree here. I am sure they looked at the mags like "who" when the G35 and M35/45 won comparos and accolades left and right, at a substantially less price.The Germans know, they cannot match the Japanese on price.

I really would like to see a manual M45 and even a manual M35. The M35 shares all the mechanics with the G35, not sure why they wouldn't offer a manual. I think that would win more customers for the brand.

A manual M35 for right around 40k! That would be something.

mmarshall

Correct.....much of the general public, simply on their own, does not closely connect the Mini with BMW, but the auto press does, and of course, car-saavy people like most of us here on CAR CHAT do because we follow the car market. The auto press, which does most of the writing, provides much of the source material for what the general public reads ( most of what we discuss here, of couse, stays in this forum ). And, last, when a shopper DOES go out to look at or buy a new Mini, they find that Mini shops are not entirely on their own..........they operate out of selected BMW dealerships, and the car itself is assembled in BMW-owned plants.

Lexmex

Down here, consumers might consider the 1 series and the A-series Mercedes (replaced by the B) to be luxury given the higher price over other markets.. However, having friends who work for both companies, they are consistently annoyed they have to sell them as they know very well it cheapens what they have. If vehicle prices approached U.S. levels more, adios to B-series for sure. You hit it right on the head.

mmarshall

I don't want to sound contemptuous here, Lexmex, but in Mexico, a lot of people would consider almost any transportation device above a burro ( donkey ) to be luxury, wouldn't they?........or is that more characteristic or Mexico's past ?

TRDFantasy

It is a good thing that BMW actually acknowledges Lexus instead of ignoring them.

Rest assured, the F line of Lexus cars will bring a whole new group of buyers into the Lexus brand.

I find it strange though that a BMW representattive would make such a statement against Infiniti, considering the limited brand appeal they have in North America and worldwide (more limited than Lexus). Not only that, but he fails to mention how important BMW's image and brand name is, and a lot of people will simply ignore or not even look at Infiniti, just based on price.

The luxury car market functions differently than the mainstream car market. With Lexus models moving closer in price to BMW and Benz, as well as the Lexus lineup expanding, the Lexus brand image is growing.

mavericck

Funny point, but the A3 and 1 series are still upscale, luxury (leaning towards the sporty side of luxury) cars.

mavericck

The Audi A3 is a very good competitor to the Acura TSX and if some people consider the TSX an upscale luxury car albeit an entry-level one, then the A3 should be considered one as well. The same goes for the 1-series, you should drive one sometime, it might change your impression of those cars.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

Is Infiniti only marketed to North America only? Or is it global?

Bean

iTrader: (1)

I don't think any car manufacturer makes as much money as Toyota does per year. Toyota could BUY GM and Ford with its cash on hand.

When it comes to profit; EVERYONE loses to Toyota... they are the world's most profitable automaker.

DrUnBiased

Actually, Porsche owns that title.

mavericck

You need to take a re-look at your accounting book there Bean, Porsche has the highest proft margin of any manufacturer with BMW close behind them. Yes Toyota may have more assets and make more money in total, but thats because they just sell more vehicles and are a much bigger company. Porsche is the worlds most profitable auto manufacturer per unit.