doug_999

Latest C&D has the 2007 M5 with stick up against the S6 and E63.

Apparently with the stick M5 you can not totally disable the traction/stability control. Thus the rankings
#1 E36 (231 points)
#2 S6 (230 points)
#3 M5 (213 points)

I personally think that Lexus fired the engineer who wouldn't allow the VDM to be disabled and BMW hired the guy

BTW amazing how close the S6 came to winning it - its power shortage was the issue. Also of note, they really liked the E63s AMG tuned Airmatic suspension.

JZA80MHU38

Just got my copy last night. Haven't read through that article yet but I was shocked to see the C&D's much-anticipated manual M5 in the last place, losing to two slush-box competitors. A little disappointed about the S6. Too slow for that kind of spec figures and in that class.

About Lexus' VDM. There's a small paragraph covered by one of the major car magazine a year ago, saying that there's a way to defeat the "nanny" on the IS350, but the handling of the car became so unpredictable. Toyota still has a lot to learn from the German competitors about driving dynamic and chassis design.

pagemaster

I cannot stand the dumb point system Car and Driver uses.

Gojirra99

I agree, it's asinine I would probably rank these cars the same way in this case though however . . .

doug_999

While not perfect, I still think it is the best of all the mags. I do not like the "Got to Have It Factor" nor do I understand it. However the other stuff makes sense - as does the way they calculate it (average of the editors scores).

MR_F1

Tell that to the engineers of the AE86 through AE101 corolla Levin & Trueno, MKIV Supra, 3 generations of MR2s and 7 generations of celica fwd & 3 generations awd.

Granted, they arent Porsche nor are they perfect, but they do know what they are doing and know how to ask for help (from companies such as Lotus...which they used to own part of) when they dont. Their product is a result of their market and the ****** who file lawsuits because of their stupidity/lack of driving skills

JZA80MHU38

How come the cars you listed are all dated? What happened to the company's product development in this century? Plus, I don't recall people praising the 3rd gen MR2 and the latest Celica for their handling or lack there of. The MKIV Supra is a straight-road rocket, but it sucks at turns compares to its major competitors (M3, 300ZX, RX7, C4/C5 Vettes). How do I know? I own one as well.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

LOL, surely you jest. In this kind of comparo it's ACTIVE suspensions that matter, and Lexus only has limited and recent experience in this.

So you're saying Toyota/Lexus' market doesn't have competent drivers but MB/BMW/Audi's do!?

Stage3

iTrader: (3)

Sometimes I think that the 5 series and all BMW's that come with the iDrive get an unjustly deserved bad rap. Mainly because, the guys that are reviewing the cars usually don't have the patience, nor sometimes I think the mental capacity, to deal with something like iDrive or any system like it. I know more than one person that has the iDrive in their BMW's and love the system. The reviewers of a lot of these mags don't have a lot of time with the car... usually it's just a day or two. It's just like any other techno gimmick... it takes some time to figure it out. Once you do, it's as easy as pie.

I do agree somewhat with their rants on the computers taking over the joy of driving a car like the M5... but they gotta get used to it and quit their whining. Cars are NEVER going to go back to the way they used to be... Time to buck up face the facts. Some of those guys are just dinosaurs that are just stuck in the Tar Pits... waiting for extinction to come around.

They complained and complained and complained about the SMG system in the M5... when they get a 6 speed... they complain some more, and then give it a poor ranking. It's like they will never be satisfied...

picus

For once I think I agree with the rankings. That said, if you can't figure out iDrive...well. Ya.

MR_F1

last i checked its 2006 and the MR2 and Celica were stopped in 2005. I dont know where you got that they dont handle from, because the MR2 spyder handles like a go cart and the 7th gen celica has been hailed as one of the best handling front drivers out there.......surely YOU must be confused. Even if most of the cars are dated, my point is that they know how, not wether or not the apply this knowledge.
Of all the cars you listed, only the M3 and the RX7 turn better than the MKIV supra, mostly due to how much more it weights than them. Then again, where I live we dont get USDM cars, so maybe the suspension was tuned differently for an american public.

MR_F1

Toyota came out with the soarer (1st gen lexus sc for you guys) in the early 90's. It had an Active suspension, not the first of its kind, but BEFORE MB and probably BMW.... surely you jest

And no I wasnt saying that Toyota/Lexus' market doesnt have competent drivers, just that they have more of a conservative image to keep, and Im sure their management wouldnt like the public and press to perceive that they are realeasing an 'unsafe' car.... where as this is considered as perfectly normal for ferrari/porsche etc to do. Its an Image/perception thing

anyway...Sorry for carrying the thread a little offtopic, it was never my intention

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I would personally but the S6 on top, followed by the E63 and then M5. I'll be looking to read the article sometime soon.

JZA80MHU38

I (that's upper case) am not confused. If the 3rd gen MR2 is such a great car, then it should have a better sales figure -- nothing close to the Miata/MX5 or maybe even the way-more-expensive Elise. It may handle well enough for its size and little power outpowered the chassis, but it's not top notch performer in its segment. So does the Celica's case.

Supra, with TEMS, still doesn't handle as well as the non-active-suspension equipped E36 M3 and FD.

JZA80MHU38

I sure will put the S6 at the top on my list as well, unless I am moving to So Cal or Florida.