no2faber

Hi,

I've seen plenty of ppl on the forums rep'ing Taiwan in their sig so I know you're out there. I'm back in Taipei for the break, and my parents are looking to buy a new car. I'm hoping to get some advice on entry-level luxury imports - specifically the G35 and ES350. They want to look at the Jag S-type, so feel free to give advice on it as well - never a fan of Jag's myself though.

My parents currently own a fully loaded '04 3.0 Toyota Camry. It has all the problems that I've seen on the ES forums - suspension and transmission. The dealer recommended an aftermarket suspension (which I've never heard of) and it made things worse. On top of that, now that the Camry's are domestically made, the fit and finish are not how they used to be.

From what I've seen, the new ES's are still dealing with the transmission problem. Being that the 3.0 Camry and ES share so many parts, i think my parents will have a bias against it even if it's the new ES. To its credit, I sat in the ES350 at the NYC auto show in April and i think out of all the cars i sat it, it was by far the most comfortable. I've never sat in any of the G35's before, new or old.

I haven't really read up much on the new G35. I personally think 300+ hp is useless here and a gas guzzler. But, if it's going to be reliable and comfortable then that'll be more important. My parents are in their late fifties and mid sixties. I'm going to get a local car and driver equivalent tomorrow, but i'm hoping for some feedback on the subject. Does anyone know if these cars are the exact same ones that go to the states? If they are, then it'll make finding reviews a lot easier.

BMW 3-series and IS are probably too small for them, so I'm ruling them out for now. We're probably going to be car testing in the next week or so, but I just wanted to get some feedback from anyone that owns a S-type, G or ES in Taiwan. Also, I tried to google inifinit forums, but I haven't really found a good one. Anyone have recommendations?

Thanks.

XeroK00L

The ES350 is hard to beat in terms of value and comfort and is IMO the most suitable car for the pothole-ridden roads in Taipei/Taiwan. But if that's no go because of the possible transmission issues, I'd say go with the GS350. Given your parents' ages, I think they'd appreciate the lower NVH and greater comfort that the GS offers much more than the G35's better fun-to-drive factor, not to mention the many more service locations Lexus has than Infiniti does.Just keep in mind that those local "Car and Driver"-equivalent magazines mostly favor handling and fun-to-drive factors over anything else, just like the real Car and Driver.Yes they are, except for the localized navigation systems, of course.

I've driven my dad's IS250 Premium Sport in Taiwan and it felt kind of harsh over potholes with the 18" wheels. But that was with the sport suspension. The GS350 has much softer suspensions and should offer much greater comfort even with 18's. Why don't you ask them to take some test drives?

ES350Bob

Celibon is now in Taiwan, maybe you can pm him for some advice.

no2faber

Thx for the advice. We test drove the BMW 320i and the Infinit G35 yesterday. For some reason, the 320i came out of no where. I thought it would be too small, but my mom suggested it and since the dealership was the closest, we went there first.

Impressions

BMW 320i: They loved it. Very plain car outside and in. 3-series does not come w/ iDrive, but import cars like the 3 come basically fully loaded (audio is probably the only thing that was upgradeble). Inside is a lot bigger than it looks on the outside. The car's specs says it only has 150hp, but when my mom test drove it w/ 5 ppl in it, it didn't feel lacking compared to our 3.0 Camry. The handling, suspension, and 6-speed tranny are big pluses. They didn't have any other 3's to test drive (323i, 325, 335), but my mom's completely satisfied w/ the 320i engine. Unlike the states, these cars have all the same options loaded, making the only difference the engine.

Infiniti G35: Ridiculously sick on the road. Not a fan of the interior, and too many bells and whistles for my parents. I don't think the exterior is awesome, but I think it's on par w/ the BMW (IMO, BMW colors look a lot better). The interior feels cram - opposite impression of the BMW. It's way smaller inside than it looks from the outside. On the road, it felt like a true luxury sports car. Very quiet, very fast, and handled very well. At the end of the day, it's overkill for my parents. 311 hp according to the salesperson. Gotta love the Skyline engine man.

We stopped by Lexus, but they only had the IS ready for test drive. They actually only had the GS in the showroom b/c they said they were clearing out the end of month/year for their showroom. We'll be testing both the IS and ES in the morning. We may or may not test the Jag.

All 3 dealership experiences here were way more enjoyable than the experience I had buying in the states. In any case, BMW was #1, Inifinit #2, and Lexus #3. surprise suprise. The lexus guy wasn't a bad person, just a bad salesperson. He was reading straight off the car's brochure to us; specifically, he wasn't reading specs, he was reading about how the waves of the sea inspired the look of the car. Wow This guy was about to read the whole brochure to us before we cut him short. The BMW rep was the kind of sales person that reads your mind. He wasn't pushy, and if he was you wouldn't even notice it.

Anyway, i'll have a follow-up w/ the IS and ES tomorrow.

encore888

Interesting experience! Did you go to the Lexus/BMW dealerships in downtown Taipei (Shin-Yi district)? Glad to hear the BMW has no iDrive, lol. I'm also surprised the new 3-series is more roomy than the new G35. IS and ES are uniquely positioned as different choices in one overall segment. Anyhow, sounds you have some tough but good choices ahead.

UberNoob

Nissan Teana is one of the top notch buys
http://www.nissan.com.tw/car/teana/i...?level=2&top=2
its a worthy choice over the domestically made Camry which looks nice too but probably still have some initial quality problems

there is no sense in getting more than like 250 hp in Taipei if driving is done within the city most of the time, IMHO

for parents in the late 50's and early sixties, i would definately recommend a larger cruiser type car for comfort
Teana would fit the bill
too bad theres no Avalon in taiwan
ES would be another good choice though but the new ES isnt as good as before and has its share of problems as well

but Teana is domestically built in taiwan as well i think...

id try to get an ES if possible and it will be better than camry since ES is japanese built
then too bad lexus doesnt have a weaker engine for the ES than the 3.5L

no2faber

Ok. So the decision was made, and the papers were signed yesterday. They ended up getting the BMW 320i.

IS impression. The inside feels way smaller inside than the BMW, especially the back seats. On top of that, the ride felt just plain stiff. The BMW, on the other hand, felt like it wasn't compromising road feel for handling. I'm pretty sure part of it is due to the fact that the Lexus test car had the optional 18's on, but that's Lexus' choice of putting it on their test car. We didn't try the ES b/c my parents weren't interested.

Just to clarify, the G35 has more interior room than the BMW 320i. We just felt like the BMW did a better job w/ its interior layout than the G to create more room. Basically, no one was a big fan of the interior of the G. The BMW was very plain, but it got the job done. Space aside, i think i consider the IS having a slight advantage compared to the BMW in terms of interior layout.

At the end of the day, my mom wanted a smaller car than the Camry and she got it. They definitely wanted an import after the Camry experience, so it ruled out the Teana. They did mention the Teana as one of the only domestics they would buy. We took a beating on trade-in for the Camry. On a 2004 w/ barely 13,500 km on it, we only got barely 50% of its value. I think a lot had to do w/ the fact that it was the 1st domestically-made Camry.

We got a decent deal on the 320i. Originally, the quote we got was for the test car w/ almost 900 km on it. They ended up selling it even b4 we closed the deal, but they honored the price on another test car (same color) w/ only about 150km on it. It's roughly a 4k US difference in price.