Mr. Jones

http://online.wsj.com/public/article..._20071129.html



1 - Honda/Acura
2 - VW
3 - BMW/Mini
4 - Land Rover
5 - Porsche
6 - Toyota Motor

Threxx

Consumer reports put out a list like that not too long ago, but the idiots compared current used car values to the MSRPs of those cars from years before. What really matters, the difference between price paid and price sold a few years down the road, or the difference between sticker price and price sold a few years down the road?

One tells me how much money I personally lost in depreciation. The other is 100% meaningless

If I paid $25k for a $30k sticker car or $25k for a $25k sticker car and in 5 years both sold for $15k used... either way I lost $10k.

The morons at consumer reports seem to conveniently ignore that fact.
I dunno about WSJ, though... any ideas?

Mr. Jones

WSJ is only summing up Kelly Blue Book's findings

Mr. Jones

In other news WSJ reported today both Honda (~25%) and Toyota (~15%) domestic production is up, this is to meet overseas demand.

while Nissan slipped ~1%

Threxx

So does KBB derive their depreciation percentages on MSRP or average price paid?

mmarshall

Easy there, friend. Before you call the people at CR morons, there is NO way that ANY magazine or publication can cover all possible scenarios covering what a car actually sold for vs. what it will bring at trade. Even KBB is only an approxomation.
Take your case...the case you mentioned. You paid 25K for the 30K car. Someone else may have paid full list....30K. Someone else, a slight discount. Someone else.....a gullible person.....maybe even MORE than list. Then you have tax, which varies state by state, dealer processing fees, which also vary, license fees which also differ, factory rebates and incentives which may not be the same in all 50 states....and, well, you get the picture.

So CR...or any other rating service......can ONLY approxmate the AVERAGE nationwide selling price ( which may vary from place to place and dealership to dealership ) and compare it to the AVERAGE trade-in, private party, or retail used figure. And...as I mentioned in a previous post.....even THOSE figures for used cars may vary from state to state due to things such as the time of year, local supply-and-demand for that particular used vehicle, condition of each used car, etc.......

Like weather forecasting, it is a VERY inexact science, and should be treated as such.

Threxx

[QUOTE=mmarshall;2265145]Easy there, friend. Before you call the people at CR morons[quote]
I knew this would be coming from you. I'm beginning to think you're getting a paycheck from those guys.

Er... well, just like used car values are not specific but rather approximate... I'm not expecting them to get the average price paid on the nose, but it's certainly possible to get close. Several publications already publish average price paid for brands as a whole, as well as models. I'm not sure how accurate they are or aren't, but it still seems more useful to me than simply pretending like everyone paid MSRP and derive depreciation numbers from that.

I don't see where you're disagreeing with what I've already said.

Point is CR doesn't even try to average the nationwide selling price of the models - they just use MSRPs straight up.

THAT is what I'm saying is useless and, yes, moronic.

Granted I could have been misinformed and maybe they actually do use the average selling price new minus the kbb selling price at a given point.. if that is the case, then I retract all of my rant, but still wish CR would explain their methods more publicly.

mmarshall

No......not really. Though I have a very high opinion of CR in the auto-reliability data and a few other fields, I don't always agree with them on the conclusions they come to when they test and evaluate cars. That's one reason ( among several ) why I review and compare vehicles myself, here on CL.

A good example: CR likes the Subaru Tribeca and feels its fit-and-finish is excellent. I don't...I don't think Subaru designed or built the vehicle as well as it did the current-generation Legacy and Outback.

Another example: CR likes the new ES350. I don't....even apart from the stellar repair reliability rating CR gives it for its first year, I've said before that the car, IMO, is a disappointment in several areas.