USCRugby

Least reliable (Worst score first)

Cadillac STS (V8)
2006 Mercees-Benz S-class
Mercedes-Benz CLS*
Mercedes-Benz E-class sedan
BMW 7-series
Jaguar S-type


I don't know about BMW but Benz has gone to ****.

http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/aut...ble/index.html

Threxx

Strange that Caddy ranks pretty darn well with JD Power yet shows up in so many places inside consumer reports as being of poor quality...

ff_

Perfect example of how a person really needs to take a lot of these reports with a grain of salt. As much as I don't care for CR (or JD power), I think that their results are at least more indicitive of the real world than JD Power's are, because they take their data from actual ownership experiences over a greater period of time. Gauging a vehicle's quality based on the owner's initial impressions as they drove it off the lot, doesn't really mean much (ahem... JD Power).

Threxx

Initial impression? They check for initial defects in the first 90 days among many other 'impressions' I guess... and if you don't care about IQS, which is mainly indicative of attention to detail in the assembly and design process, you can look at their mid term results (3 years) or long term (8 years, I think) as well which progressively start to show less of the defects involved in oversites in the assembly plant and more problems caused by cost-cutting and built in obsolescence.

ff_

You never hear Lexus or Toyota advertising anything but JD Power initial quality, which doesn't really say a whole lot because most people are going to say great things about their cars when they're new. Wait for a year (or more) when the newness wears off, and the quality problems have shown up.

My initial impression of the quality of our '06 ES was great. I did the JD Power survey, and gave the car all excellent marks. Now after 7 months of ownership, we've had several problems that've tarnished that initial impression, and I would certainly respond to an initial quality survey much differently than I originally did.

Same goes for my IS. Initially, it was great. But 5 months later, there are several significant things that would cause me to give the car mediocre marks for quality and reliability.

Threxx

They actually seem to get pretty top notch marks in mid-term quality too (3 years of ownership). One thing I just thought of is I see JD Power publishing 8 year results for individual older cars but I've never seen them compile a brand by brand chart for 8 years out... I wonder if they just don't have enough data on all brands and models or what? I suppose the problem there is you have to ask people what problems the car has had in the last 8 (or at least the last 5 of 8) years of ownership and the average 8 year old car is not owned by the same person it was when it was new or 3 years old meaning they may not be aware of what problems it has and hasn't had...

Well I understand what you mean completely, however, their IQS is specifically made to survey problems in the first 90 days of ownership. So even with your problems after 90 days you probably should have given it high marks for the period of time the survey is asking about. Then if they send you out a midterm quality survey another 2 and a half years from now then you'd be completely justified in reporting any and all headaches the car might have given you over time.

They aren't saying problems after 90 days but before 1 year aren't important, but surveys have to draw the line somewhere and they draw it at 90 days because the first 90 days is the most indicative of problems caused by the assembly plants moreso than cheap/defective designs.

ff_

I can certainly agree with that.

I'd like to see them do a 12-month survey, and make it as visible as they do the 90 day one. From my experience, quality problems seem to most often rear their ugly head within the first year. In my opinion, this is a better indication of a car's quality than the 90-day surveys.

Lil4X

Had an interesting visit with an old friend and new client yesterday. It seems he leases cars for himself and his wife, and while he puts a LOT of miles on his car, she drives what is probably normal for a suburban housewife. They owned a pair of Lexus several years ago, but he leased a Cadillac and his wife had always wanted a Jaguar. As you might imagine, he's pretty unhappy. The Lexus experience spoiled him for just about anything else.

The Jag has spent an extraordinary amount of time in the shop, for one little fiddly thing after another - despite fairly low mileage. The Cadillac has been more reliable, but the dealership has really put him off. Because he's on the road every day as the owner of a new company, it's important his ride is reliable above all else. When it's in the shop, he REALLY needs a loaner. Fine, said the dealer when he brought the Cad in for service - it'll cost you eight and a half dollars per day.

WHAT? says my friend, rather stunned. Lexus had always provided a free loaner, and the Cadillac dealer wants eight-fifty for a rental? It turns out the dealer claims they rent the cars from a third party, but the person driving the car has to pay the tax on the rental. Now, that's just plain fishy to begin with, but even if true, WHY would a dealer risk the ire of their customer over a stinkin' eight-fifty? Why don't they just eat the taxes and credit it to good will?

Then comes the capper: My friend, displaced from his nice big DTS, is greeted in the driveway by his loaner - a Dodge Stratus, a 4 cylinder, yet. I think he was insulted as much as anything. My friend paid, but thanks to the foolishness of the dealer in squeezing him for every drop of blood, he won't be driving another Cadillac soon.

In two weeks he's going over to talk to my salesperson about another pair of Lexus - Yeah, the Jag is being unloaded too - his wife wants something that spends more time in the driveway than the shop . . . .

TheRupp

Lil4X - I'd try a different dealer if I were your friend. That's unacceptable, no matter what type of dealership you are.

Personally I think BMW's are actually decently reliable, especially the 3 series. I know that Jaguar and Benz across the board really aren't anything to write home over.

92 SC400

What IS do you have? What kind of problems have you had? My friend's sister is considering one in the near future and was wondering about any issues. She's read all the good but hasn't found much bad, documented anyway.