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yea the W210 styling was always like an awkward middle period between the classical perfection of the W124 and the modern perfection of the W211, although admittedly the W211 can be a bit boring when it doesn't have 'avantgarde styling' optioned (seriously that's what mercedes calls it lol)
Yes! I’ve always loved the W211 styling. I remember when it came out in 2002. Mercedes sent my grandparents lots of flyers and pamphlets. They almost bought one but they got mad at the dealers trade in offer on their 1997. So they kept till it was totaled in 2010….
And let us not forget ladies and gentleman that the GS was discontinued so that the FWD ES could live!
The GS was never a threat to ES sales lol, it was simply too low volume to justify its existence when the ES kept cannibalizing all its sales since it was bigger and cheaper (really all that matters to the American market where size is directly correlated to wealth). Now the ES is doing the same cannibalization to the LS.
The FWD Mercedes products aren't selling well because they're built primarily for the European market and too small for American tastes just like the Alfa Tonale. But as Lexus has demonstrated, if Mercedes inflated the GLB by about 50% and charged GLE or GLS prices for it, the buyers wouldn't bat an eye and still keep buying it.
Last edited by Motorola; Sep 25, 2024 at 02:35 PM.
The GS was never a threat to ES sales lol, it was simply too low volume to justify its existence when the ES kept cannibalizing all its sales since it was bigger and cheaper (really all that matters to the American market where size is directly correlated to wealth). Now the ES is doing the same cannibalization to the LS.
The ES and GS absolutely appealed to the same buyer, and like you said the non enthusiast buyer bought the ES because it was bigger and cheaper. if the ES didn't exist though, that buyer would have bought the GS. If Lexus really wanted to be a competitor to the Germans they would have cancelled the ES. The GS could never survive as the better car while the ES existed in the same segment. Dealers and salespeople also made no effort to sell the GS, and instead just took that buyer who came in and wanted "a Lexus" and sold them the ES because it was easy.
The ES and LS are far enough apart in cost where they aren't competing for the same buyer, the LS is twice as expensive as the ES, roughly.
But as Lexus has demonstrated, if Mercedes inflated the GLB by about 50% and charged GLE or GLS prices for it, the buyers wouldn't bat an eye and still keep buying it.
I actually don’t care for the monoblock wheels. When I said five spoke wheels, I was referring to these that came on the sport package.
Yep, I like those better too.
And sure @SW17LS it's not as special as an E55 but I already own a Mercedes that is 1 of 1450. The SL is hella special. I just want an old, handsome E-Class that'll run forever so I can stop putting excess miles on my SL. I have stopped driving it but I need a Mercedes to drive all the time, it is what it is.
The ES and GS absolutely appealed to the same buyer, and like you said the non enthusiast buyer bought the ES because it was bigger and cheaper. if the ES didn't exist though, that buyer would have bought the GS. If Lexus really wanted to be a competitor to the Germans they would have cancelled the ES. The GS could never survive as the better car while the ES existed in the same segment. Dealers and salespeople also made no effort to sell the GS, and instead just took that buyer who came in and wanted "a Lexus" and sold them the ES because it was easy.
The ES and LS are far enough apart in cost where they aren't competing for the same buyer, the LS is twice as expensive as the ES, roughly.
Sadly, I agree.
There was probably more profit in the ES as well because of the platform sharing with the Camry/Avalon.
And sure @SW17LS it's not as special as an E55 but I already own a Mercedes that is 1 of 1450. The SL is hella special. I just want an old, handsome E-Class that'll run forever so I can stop putting excess miles on my SL. I have stopped driving it but I need a Mercedes to drive all the time, it is what it is.
Would you replace the LS with it?
Honestly I would drive and enjoy your SL as much as you want to. No point in having a car you love if you don't drive it IMO.
Originally Posted by FrankReynoldsCPA
There was probably more profit in the ES as well because of the platform sharing with the Camry/Avalon.
For Toyota but not really for the dealer.
Toyota chose the most profitable route not the route that was best for their brand, and the result is what we have now...a Lexus brand that sells lots of cars but those cars are largely disposable stuff that enthusiasts don't want and as a result Lexus is no longer considered a peer to the germans as it was for a time.
Hell no, but I would drive the hell out of it. I want another Mercedes with a hood star, nice V8, proven platform. It would be nice to drive around.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Honestly I would drive and enjoy your SL as much as you want to. No point in having a car you love if you don't drive it IMO.
.
I have been, I really have..... There's no way I'll ever go too long without driving it, ether, because keeping all the parts greased and running it regularly is great for it. But I have cut back driving it some. I mentally don't want to cross the 70k barrier and I'm a tank of gas away from doing it... lol.
I just have an itch for another Mercedes and I know I could find a decent V8 W210 for cheap. This doesn't have to be immaculate like the SL. "Good" or better condition would be fine.
Honestly I would drive and enjoy your SL as much as you want to. No point in having a car you love if you don't drive it IMO.
For Toyota but not really for the dealer.
Toyota chose the most profitable route not the route that was best for their brand, and the result is what we have now...a Lexus brand that sells lots of cars but those cars are largely disposable stuff that enthusiasts don't want and as a result Lexus is no longer considered a peer to the germans as it was for a time.
Agreed 100%. If you have a car you like, you should enjoy it. No sense leaving a nice car when you die for somebody else to enjoy instead(after they replace the rubber components).
Lexus is absolutely just an Acura competitor at this stage.
Agreed 100%. If you have a car you like, you should enjoy it. No sense leaving a nice car when you die for somebody else to enjoy instead(after they replace the rubber components.
The ES and LS are far enough apart in cost where they aren't competing for the same buyer, the LS is twice as expensive as the ES, roughly.
I don't disagree, but when a potential LS buyer goes to the Lexus showroom and sits inside an ES before or after an LS500 and notices that the LS isn't bigger inside than an ES, they're going to question why the LS costs more when it doesn't offer more space, which is the same issue the GS has had since its inception. So while it many not convince them to buy an ES, it would at least chase them away from the LS500.
Originally Posted by FrankReynoldsCPA
There was probably more profit in the ES as well because of the platform sharing with the Camry/Avalon.
To be fair, the GS was also platform sharing with the Toyota Crown in Japan for most of its life. Up until the late 2010's Toyota actually had a more extensive lineup of RWD-based sedans (Crown, Crown Majesta, Comfort, Mark X, Century, etc) than Lexus ever did in its entire history. It's ironic that what made Lexus so successful to start with in the US, which was building the LS400 specifically to suit American tastes at the time, is now backfiring because American tastes have shifted towards big roomy crossovers which a FWD platform is inherently better suited for - and Lexus is just giving those American buyers what they want.
I wouldn't touch that car with a 10 foot pole lol. Its not a Lexus!
As for adding it to what you have, where would you park all those cars? Way more cars than I would want IMO. Thats why as much as I love a car, when its time for a new car its time for a new car.
Originally Posted by Motorola
I don't disagree, but when a potential LS buyer goes to the Lexus showroom and sits inside an ES before or after an LS500 and notices that the LS isn't bigger inside than an ES, they're going to question why the LS costs more when it doesn't offer more space, which is the same issue the GS has had since its inception. So while it many not convince them to buy an ES, it would at least chase them away from the LS500.
Only if they don't care at all about quality, interior materials and design, and drive/ride quality. If thats true then they should buy the ES. People made that comparison with the GS because the money was similar, people aren't cross shopping an LS and ES when the LS is twice as much. Remember there was always an Avalon and people still bought the LS.
American tastes have shifted towards big roomy crossovers which a FWD platform is inherently better suited for - and Lexus is just giving those American buyers what they want.
Then how do you explain the success of German and Korean luxury crossovers that are on proper premium platforms? Luxury consumers are out there and we do care, and Lexus isn't on that level anymore
