Drove a new Mercedes S580 and S580e at legnth, thoughts compared to my S560
 

So...it gave me a lot to think about lol

I drove both an S580 and an S580e, the plug in hybrid.

First of all, I think I am coming around on the interior. Its certainly different, but the tech is next level. Both the cars I drove had the 3D instrument cluster which is truly amazing, it really does look like a 3D movie without 3D glasses, and its something that can't be described to you, it has to be seen to be believed. If a car I bought didn't have it, it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd be happy to have it. The new active ambient lighting is amazing and fully visible even in broad daylight. There are some quality differences, for instance my W222 has fully carpeted sills where there is no plastic, and the 223 has hard plastic sills which IMO cheapen the interior somewhat, but it is still an extremely nice place to be. The sides of the console in the W222 with napa leather (non exclusive napa) are also real leather, in the 223 they are synthetic, you have to go to exclusive napa to get that area in leather which makes the full door panels and dash leather too, gets the suede headliner and additional wood on the backs of the front seats. Thats a $3,100 upgrade which reqires the $3,800 warmth and comfort package/power rear seats so thats a $7,000 cost. The base Burmester audio is also dramatically better than the system in my S560, so thats a plus.

The car does feel more firmly damped than my car. The S580 had 20s, and the S560 had 19s, both runflats and WAY over inflated to 46 PSI, but the dealership has several very big speed bumps, and when driving over them at low speeds the new car definitely feels considerably firmer. The S580 was extremely quiet, and definitely felt quieter than my car, the S580e I drove felt less quiet as no different than my car, so that was a little strange. Not sure if that was a unit difference or if maybe the 580e has different cabin isolation, not sure. What really surprised me was the engine and throttle response in the 580 felt very heavy and sluggish compared to my S560, despite having the 48v mild hybrid system, even with the engine in sport mode. Getting back into my car the difference was immediately apparent, mine felt smoother and more instant and effortless not only from a stop but all the time, quick throttle inputs that feel great in my S560 and let me pop into a hole in traffic for instance feel heavy and delayed in the 580. Strange. Engine stop/start was a non issue in the 580, totally imperceptible. Only annoyance was it doesn't like to creep at idle. So you can't really release the brake a little and let it creep up, it has to engage the engine to do that.

The real surprise was the S580e. It has the inline 6 from the S500 plus a plug in hybrid that gets 60 miles of pure EV range. He put it in EV mode which prioritizes EV use, and when you get on the pedal past a certain point (you can feel that point in the throttle) it starts the engine and gives you the power you want, then it snaps right back into EV. In EV only its obviously not as powerful as that i7 I drove, but the power delivery at all speeds felt much better than the 580 because of that lazy throttle feel, and it has enough power to move the car around pretty well. I am confident that in my daily use I would never need the engine, but the engine would negate my issue of having to charge on a long trip. When the engine comes to life you feel its not as smooth and refined as the V8, but it would rarely come to life...that experience of driving the 580e really threw me for a loop...in full EV mode the car is incredibly serene...I really think I will enjoy an EV...that might be the best of both worlds.

So it gave me a lot to think about...getting back into my car, definitely still like mine and really don't feel the need to upgrade, if I weren't in the lease and forced to make a decision I certainly would not make one now, I would keep driving what I have and wait for the refresh and see whats what...I do like the 223 more than I did when I briefly test drove one a couple years ago...my main areas of concern are the stiffer suspension...I would say thats because of the tires but at those low speeds going over those big speed bumps, the firmer feel is really clear...I would replace the run flats and they would of course be aired 10-13 PSI lower, would make a big impact in the ride.

He's going to send me the order guide and run some numbers, both cars were just over $140,000, which is more than I would spec them. There is $10k lease cash and then the 580e gets the $7,500, so you would have $17,500 in rebates off the 580e at MSRP, which I wouldn't need to pay...wonder if that would get me anywhere close to where my payment is...

Great review, thanks.

So you didn't care for the electric motor crap? This is why I no longer am an S-Class enthusiast because you can't get them ICE only anymore.

I would want yours.

That was sluggish for fuel economy reasons (one of them I guess) and because it adds a lot of weight.

I really don't think thats what it is, I don't know if its a gearing thing or what, but the 48v mild hybrid system should make it more responsive and feel quicker down low, but I would say the 580 in sport mode felt like my 560 in comfort mode, it felt like it started in second gear even though it didn't.

Its not weight either, because the 580 is actually slightly lighter, S560 4Matic is 4,850 lbs S580 4Matic is 4,775 lbs.

I preferred the S580e, but my concern there would be once the novelty of the EV option wore off I would be unhappy with the coarser feel of the 6cyl engine. For me I think going to a full EV is a better option to that but for travel that is undeniably more appealing.

...right. I also would like to see those gauges in person, the 3D thing.

Its amazing! Really is. Nothing I would ever think was appealing on paper, but seeing it, its very cool.

As for fuel economy, the 560 gets better economy! The 48v in the 580 is not for fuel economy its for the ability to run electricity heavy systems like the eABC and autonomous driving systems coming down the pike


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You remove the starter and alternator and add a pretty much bulletproof (if done right) ISG. Ask yourself how often you hear of Toyota hybrids' transmissions (which are a planetary gearset and two electric motors that combined make way more power than the engine) fail - and compare it to the old school starters / generators. I'll take a brushless AC motor any day of the week.

There should be no difference whatsoever based on the move to an ISG alone. What they've done with drivetrain tuning is probably another story.

Could it be a difference in EPA test procedures? I was looking at the LS500h fuel consumption ratings some time ago and noticed that there were some weird changes at that time (not in the test procedure, in the supposed FE of the models I looked at).

Could also be that they put non-4matic numbers for the 4matic model and/or vice versa.

Its very good, the best implementation of it in any car so far

All S580s are 4Matic...and the numbers for the S560 on there are accurate as far as my experience. I think we would have heard if there was a change in the calculating methodology

Good review, but did you change your mind.....or just drive the 580e out of curiosity? A couple of days ago, as I recall, you told us you were settled on a new BMW 7-series.

Once again, sounds like the PDI guys at the dealership didn't do their jobs. (I see it all the time LOL). New vehicles come off the transporter with their tires inflated to between 40-50 PSI. The PDI guys are supposed to bleed them down to within a couple of PSI-recommended, but, more often than not, fail to do so....I often do it myself. I've seen many a red-faced manager at the dealerships when I point that out LOL.

The fact that you were sampling 20" wheels vs. 19s also may have made a slight-difference in the ride, if lower-profile rubber was involved. Run-flats are also somewhat stiffer due to their nature......their sidewalls have to support the weight of that end of the car without any air for at least 50 miles at 50 MPH.

I'm not settled on anything, I'm as far from settled as can be lol

My salesman suggested I drive the 580e

that is interesting about the throttle response... in the GLE450 it's very apparent when the ISG gives you an extra shove of torque, on the dash you can even see the POWER/ECO meter suddenly shoot into the blue when it kicks in lol

i still say keep yours, it's somehow more "S-classy" to me

Reading what you wrote it lines up with what I felt but I do find it very strange that Mercedes went stiffer and Audi went softer. Normally the spectrum doesn't really change between the German trio but I guess they are changing stuff since it's not just me who felt it

Have you checked out a Genesis G90? Bitkahuna was well-pleased with his....or are you you still turned off by the fact that they are sold and serviced at Hyundal dealerships? :uh:

I can't find the specific post, but you seemed quite enthralled with the new BMW 7-series, and were gushing that it was better-riding than your 560.

great write-up!
maybe the 'coding' you had done to your 560 is why it feels more responsive? i believe your coding forces you car to always move off in 1st gear.
also, doesn't your 560 have the 48v system also?
also did you check to see if the 580/580e were in any kind of 'valet' mode?
even if the 580 or 580e feel 'slower' off the line, perhaps that's due to the priority of smoothness over anything else, so it could be basically programming.
the 580e i think you said it the ttv6 + the bigger battery and electric motor(s)? that 60mi,. or range is pretty great since for daily commutes that means basically using no gas. and you still have the ability to drive long distances without waiting at some charging station.
glad you're coming around on the interior. yes, as you've mentioned, there's cost cutting corners, but obviously something has to give in a changing economy plus new features.
not sure if you were looking at models with the center 'slope' screen, or the crazy hyperscreen? not sure what's in the s580 (sorry, i don't have in that rarified air much! :D )
but i know from having driven the eqs suv that i loved the interior. i couldn't care less what's made of what as long as it looks and feels good in the frequent eye line and touch points.

anyway, you have such a horrible decision between an i7, an s580, or something else, you poor thing. :D :D