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It's still pretty bad in SoCal. Not as bad as when I was a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's of course. I was just in Eastvale where my brother lives (near Corona), and I could see the mountains covered in a haze of smog. So saying cars don't pollute, I don't buy that. They burn cleaner, yes, but they still pollute. Just turn your car on in a closed garage for 15 minutes and lets see how that works out . I could sit in my garage for an hour with either my Polestar or Model Y with zero worry, unless my battery decides to explode
I did not say cars don’t pollute and you also did not say I did say that. I grew up in Upland, so not too far from you and if you’re around Norco, I do have fondness for the city.
I do get your point. I would not run any ICE in a closed garage for 30 seconds unless I was trying to do myself in (and I’m not). My Civic is ULEV and when I start it, it smells rich and leans out when it warms up. I get that you don’t want to inhale that.
I guess my Civic sits in the garage with close to zero environmental impact. Theoretically, it could leak oil and since the hatchbacks are built in the UK, cynics have said it will eventually leak .
I have some personal frustration because I am working for a company that I think is doing the right thing and I am committed to it, but we do get a lot of flack because people don’t like that it’s us who are really invested in improving air quality. I don’t really know how we make clean fuel but the angry protestors don’t either, but they are angry nonetheless.
Just turn your car on in a closed garage for 15 minutes and lets see how that works out . I could sit in my garage for an hour with either my Polestar or Model Y with zero worry, unless my battery decides to explode
Actually cars have gotten so clean that this is no longer a viable method of suicide. Now true, if you had an incredibly tight garage, you would still eventually die, but not from Carbon Monoxide poisoning out the tailpipe like in decades past. It would actually be from suffocation or Carbon Dioxide poisoning due to the consumption (yours and the car's) of all the Oxygen in the space.
Actually cars have gotten so clean that this is no longer a viable method of suicide. Now true, if you had an incredibly tight garage, you would still eventually die, but not from Carbon Monoxide poisoning out the tailpipe like in decades past. It would actually be from suffocation or Carbon Dioxide poisoning due to the consumption (yours and the car's) of all the Oxygen in the space.
I don't want to test your statement to see if it's true or not . No doubt cars run a lot cleaner today
I did not say cars don’t pollute and you also did not say I did say that. I grew up in Upland, so not too far from you and if you’re around Norco, I do have fondness for the city.
I do get your point. I would not run any ICE in a closed garage for 30 seconds unless I was trying to do myself in (and I’m not). My Civic is ULEV and when I start it, it smells rich and leans out when it warms up. I get that you don’t want to inhale that.
I guess my Civic sits in the garage with close to zero environmental impact. Theoretically, it could leak oil and since the hatchbacks are built in the UK, cynics have said it will eventually leak .
I have some personal frustration because I am working for a company that I think is doing the right thing and I am committed to it, but we do get a lot of flack because people don’t like that it’s us who are really invested in improving air quality. I don’t really know how we make clean fuel but the angry protestors don’t either, but they are angry nonetheless.
My brother lives a few miles from Norco. Very beautiful area, if I was going to move to back to SoCal (I grew up in Los Angeles), it would be that area. The traffic does suck though...the 15, 60 and 91 are pure nightmares
I'm not an environmentalist, so I'm not against fossil fuels. My move to EV's was purely for better performance/efficiency
My brother lives a few miles from Norco. Very beautiful area, if I was going to move to back to SoCal (I grew up in Los Angeles), it would be that area. The traffic does suck though...the 15, 60 and 91 are pure nightmares
I'm not an environmentalist, so I'm not against fossil fuels. My move to EV's was purely for better performance/efficiency
We are continuing to have a reasonable discussion and I appreciate it. The industry does need successful use cases. I get the appeal. I have only ridden in EVs thus far. The acceleration is roller coaster level fun.
Actually cars have gotten so clean that this is no longer a viable method of suicide. Now true, if you had an incredibly tight garage, you would still eventually die, but not from Carbon Monoxide poisoning out the tailpipe like in decades past. It would actually be from suffocation or Carbon Dioxide poisoning due to the consumption (yours and the car's) of all the Oxygen in the space.
Modern car emits about 1,000 ppm of CO anything over 100 is considered dangerous. You're right it takes much longer than in the past but run your car in an enclosed space and you can still die of CO poisoning.
For context a car with no catalytic converter emits up to 100,000 ppm of CO. Incredible cars used to drive around like that! What's crazy is when emissions controls first starting being a thing there was a huge uproar over them people said not necessary, too expensive, government intrusion etc.
Originally Posted by AMIRZA786
As of today, crude is still a vital lifeline. For energy, we can slowly move away from it, but it's going to take decades, and Billions to transition to alternate renewable energy (wind, solar, nuclear etc). Think of all the transportation companies that have fleets of trucks they invested in, hundreds of thousands on. It's going to take years for them to replace them. I'm just looking at things realistically
I think we will move away from oil much faster than most anticipate. We've moved to solar much faster than predicted, and of course moved to electric vehicles way faster than predicted.
Modern car emits about 1,000 ppm of CO anything over 100 is considered dangerous. You're right it takes much longer than in the past but run your car in an enclosed space and you can still die of CO poisoning.
For context a car with no catalytic converter emits up to 100,000 ppm of CO. Incredible cars used to drive around like that! What's crazy is when emissions controls first starting being a thing there was a huge uproar over them people said not necessary, too expensive, government intrusion etc.
I think we will move away from oil much faster than most anticipate. We've moved to solar much faster than predicted, and of course moved to electric vehicles way faster than predicted.
Only California and a handful of other states have made solar affordable through tax incentives and rebates. If it takes 15 years to recoup your losses, than it's not a viable option. Until every state (those that have enough sun) offers incentives to go solar, it's still only a limited solution
So what about constant expansion of cities and suburbs? Where my brother lives, it was nothing but farmland 15 years ago, now there's like half a million people living there, houses so big they need two AC units to keep them cool in 90 degree plus summers. And now they are expanding another 100,000 homes on more land that used to have nothing but cows. Not concerned about that expansion, but just EV's that maybe charge and use 11 to 15 kWh per day?
That's also one of my points....EVs are not the only high-demand drain on the power-grid. But they take an already bad situation, and, with vastly-increasing numbers in the future, will only make it much worse, unless ways can be found to generate enough electricity at peak-demand periods, like when millions of EVs will be recharging at night.
Only California and a handful of other states have made solar affordable through tax incentives and rebates. If it takes 15 years to recoup your losses, than it's not a viable option. Until every state (those that have enough sun) offers incentives to go solar, it's still only a limited solution
Solar paypack is less than 15 years now is it not? Keep in mind home solar is not the same as solar farms, as they scale up cost drops. As for charging at night that's what grid storage and home storage is for.
That's also one of my points....EVs are not the only high-demand drain on the power-grid. But they take an already bad situation, and, with vastly-increasing numbers in the future, will only make it much worse, unless ways can be found to generate enough electricity at peak-demand periods, like when millions of EVs will be recharging at night.
With all due respect, a house (or many houses in this case) with an HVAC and lots of appliances use a vast amount of energy...24 hours a day. An EV on the other hand pulls a small amount of energy, mainly during off peak hours when electricity usage is at it's lowest. If you look at the electricity usage of households with EV's, their lowest electricity usage is night time. My peak electricity usage is between 6am and 8am, than again between 4pm and 9PM, but drops after that...and I own and charge four EV's. EV's really don't make things worse. What you are doing is focusing on a needle in a haystack.
That said, we need to continue to improve and expand the grid. And as more households purchase EV's,expansion and modernization of the grid needs to continue
Average house uses about 30 kWh per day that is energy for well over 100 miles of EV driving almost no one does that every single day of the year. On average a person drives 35 miles per day.
@mmarshall take a look at my typical daily energy usage:
My "Peak" energy usage is between 6am and 7am.....no cars are being charged. My "lowest" energy usage is after 11pm....at this time I'm charging at least one or more of my cars (I have four EV's)
Homes are trending larger aka much more energy to cool and heat them.
They have known for a long time what they need to do.
Homes are divided into a series of private zones for individual use, and as family members, we share fewer activities. The average new house has expanded in size from about 1500 square feet in the mid-70s to over 2000 (Friedman and Krawitz). People want more space. Family homes have grown by 1/3 in size over the last twenty years. Sizes of average lots are decreasing, as sizes of homes are increasing. The median size for a new single family home in 2003 was about 2300 square feet (National Association of Home Builders). Family size has decreased almost 25% over 30 years, while the size of new houses has increased about 50%.
It comes as no surprise that houses have grown in size and cost over the years. At the beginning of the last century, the average home was 700 to 1200 square feet. In 1950, the average home was 1000 square feet, growing to an average size of 2000 square feet in 2000. Costs in 1900 were about $5000; $11000 in 1950; and $200,000 last year. An interesting fact revealed in a National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) report is that although homes have grown in size, lot sizes have begun to significantly decrease in size. In 1990, the average lot size was 14,680 square feet. Just eight years later, the average lot size was 12,870. In its profile of a typical new home in 2010, the report suggests that the average lot size will shrink by another 1000 square feet while house size will increase to 2200 or more square feet.
Yep. My brother has a 3500 square foot home cooled by two seperate AC compressors to cool different zones. Summer temps in his area range between upper 80's and over 100 F
With all due respect, a house (or many houses in this case) with an HVAC and lots of appliances use a vast amount of energy...24 hours a day. An EV on the other hand pulls a small amount of energy, mainly during off peak hours when electricity usage is at it's lowest. If you look at the electricity usage of households with EV's, their lowest electricity usage is night time. My peak electricity usage is between 6am and 8am, than again between 4pm and 9PM, but drops after that...and I own and charge four EV's. EV's really don't make things worse. What you are doing is focusing on a needle in a haystack.
That said, we need to continue to improve and expand the grid. And as more households purchase EV's,expansion and modernization of the grid needs to continue
A/Cs dont run year long either, when winter comes around I probably wont run the A/C for up to 4 months. Ovens and dryers arent run 24 hours a day either. When a dryer runs its 1.5 at a time.
Originally Posted by link13
This is high risk of being a stupid comment from me, but I’m going for it anyway. One of my favorite TV shows as a kid was CHiPs and it’s available on YouTube TV now. One striking thing is how awful the air quality was. I grew up in SoCal playing soccer for many years and I remember the burning feeling in lungs after practice (practice was worse because I had to train as backup tender and starting fullback).
Lungs typically don’t burn now and it’s very noticeably cleaner in terms of air quality. Sure we can improve on it. The progress is also very significant.
. I could sit in my garage for an hour with either my Polestar or Model Y with zero worry, unless my battery decides to explode 
. No doubt cars run a lot cleaner today
